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need some help - lean and cam probs

Started by perfdrug, June 21, 2004, 09:16:44 AM

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perfdrug

Lean Issue
So I replaced the base and head gaskets about 3 weeks ago. Now, when i ride, it idles progressivly higher as the bike warms up. I had thought i simply didn't attach the carbs to the rubber boot thing well enough, and unmetered air was sneaking in, but those connections were tight as (insert funny tight thing here). Are there any how-tos or anything as to how i adjust this and what to look for as i'm adjusting?

Cams
The pictures speak for themselves. The before picture i took when i tore the bike down to the base gasket. the after pics i took last week. bike is still sitting exactly as photographed.
http://www.clan-intrepid.com/perfy/cycle/wtf

the backs of the intake lobes look rusty or burnt. they're still pretty smooth, and i can't rub them clean. the actual lobe part (that engages the valve plunger) is as shiny and smooth as day 1. The issue with the bike is that the Valve Cover Gasket pushed out at the front left half-circle part (by cam cap A) and an oil gyser ensued. so what i'm thinking is that the intake cam was starved of oil for the 3-4 minutes before i could shut off the bike, while oil was flowing out the exhaust cam-side of the valve cover gasket. that would (hopefully) also explain why the exhaust cam is still in pristine condition. tonight, unless i get some definate answers about this problem, i'm going to put it all back together, do a much better job of getting the oil off the valve rim region (that contacts the gasket) and pray that i just had an oily patch where the gasket slid out. (i do honestly think that was the problem. i just did a lazy wipedown, and didn't use that much gasket compound last time.)
if anyone has any ideas as to what the problem may be, i'm all ears.

dgyver

The intake cams are burnt which would have happen from oil starvation. It is possible that you lost enough oil pressure from the oil gyser to starve the intake cam. Also, check to see if any of the ports have been blocked going to the cam.
Common sense in not very common.

perfdrug


dgyver

There are ports where the cam sets on the head.
Common sense in not very common.

Gisser

Very odd.  The back of the cam lobe has clearance and shouldn't run against the shim hard enough to overheat.  :dunno:   Check for clearance.  It's all splash lubrication for the cam lobes and the chain must be constantly bringing up oil not to mention the high pressure feed to the journals so I dunno if a valve cover gusher could be the culprit  :dunno:.

JLKasper

It appears to me there is some moisture-related oil sludge on the non-wearing portions of the camshafts, and the lobes themselves are rusted (heat discoloration is more likely blue or purple).  I don't know the history of this engine, but it appears to me there's been a lot of short runs without the engine heating up enough to evaporate crankcase moisture, and maybe the bike has sit for more than one winter without being cranked.  Perhaps the one lobe that was shiny all over was sitting facing up with a coating of oil underneath it.  Since that lobe sits lowest when parked on its sidestand, that might also help to explain it.  The rest of them gathered the surface rust.  Of course, the contact areas will lose the corrosion quickly.  Then again, you might want to check the clearance of the shiny lobe.  Perhaps it's running with zero clearance. :cheers:
"A skittish motor-bike with a touch of blood in it is better than all the riding animals on Earth."
               --T.E. Lawrence

Reknelb

I bought a parts motor that had sat out in the sun for years in california, it looked just like that. Dried up/baked on oil. I was in the process of completely disassembling the motor so I stuck the cams in the parts washer in the shop and the dried oil came off.

Bob Broussard

It looks like some rust to me. If you had no valve clearence it would be shiny all the way around. I wouldn't worry about it. I would check the valve clearences anyway. It could be one tight valve causing the high idle as it warms up.
As far as the gasket blowing out. Make sure the crank breather isn't clogged up. It could be crankcase pressure building up and blowing out the gasket.
I've never used any sealer on these areas with no problems.
Did you use new rings and hone the cylinder? could be blow by getting past the old rings and creating crancase pressure.

dgyver

I am surprised that it would rust so quickly. Why is the intake cam showing runt & not the exhaust? I have a set of cams that have been sitting on my workbench for a couple of months that have no rust at all. But then it is an air conditioned shop.
Common sense in not very common.

perfdrug

that's why i don't know if they're rust or burnt. the pics are literally taken 10 days and 40 miles apart.
i really hope there's no blowby. is there an easy way to check? i don't want to go all the way back down to the pistons. and i also really don't want to take it to a dealer. the bike is prolly only worth 1/4 of what they'd charge me.

i curse the @$$hole that put this bike on ebay w/o mentioning the leaky head gasket. and i know he knew, cause he obviously cleaned the engine exterior, and drained the oil 100% (as it was when i got it) so that no more oil leaked. then he proceded to charge full market value. i ought to pay him a visit.

i want to put it back together and ride. it's been so nice here but i'm so frustrated that i don't even want to go near it to try to fix it. What do you guys recommend i do, based on your own observations and the observations of others?

jiggersplat

Quote from: perfdrug
i curse the @$$hole that put this bike on ebay w/o mentioning the leaky head gasket. and i know he knew, cause he obviously cleaned the engine exterior, and drained the oil 100% (as it was when i got it) so that no more oil leaked. then he proceded to charge full market value. i ought to pay him a visit.

i feel you.  mine had a bent transmission shaft and a number of missing parts.  stupid ebay.
2003 suzuki sv1000s

MarkusN

How's legislation on fraud like this in the US, can a vendor really scrape by like this if yo do take them to court?

Hiding an obvious fault in an article in the description is also considered fraud, isn't it?

perfdrug

problem is i didn't buy it from him. someone bought it off of ebay, then got a surprise bike as a grad gift, so sold me the bike w/o even having ridden it.

i'm glad for the opportunity to work on the bike, but after the headgasket weekend, i wanted to be done and able to ride.

anyways, back on topic  :mrgreen: can i simply put the valve cover back on and run the bike as is? how can i check for blowby w/o tearing down to the pistons?

MarkusN

Assuming that the blowby goes in both directions, check if the bike smokes blue when the engine decelerates hard (rev it up, then quickly close the throttle). This creates a strong vacuum in the combustion chamber; if there's blowby it will suck oil in there and burn it.

Bob Broussard

While you have the cover off, check the valve clearences.
Also make sure the choke plunger on the carbs completely closes when you turn it off. If it hangs up it could cause the faster idle.
Then make sure the breather on the top of the cam cover is not obstructed (no kinked hose, etc.)
Put the cover on, top off the oil level and ride it.
Just stay close to home and keep and eye on the gasket. If it seems ok, go out and run it to redline in a few gears and see if the gasket stays put.

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