GS Shifting Issues

1998_GS500 · September 01, 2004, 10:00:28 AM

I have searched for this, but I didn't find anything that quite matches the problem I am seeing.

I am having problems with downshifting. Let's say I am in 6th and coming up to a light, so I start to downshift like I normally would. The shifter feels like it is in first (it won't ratchet down any further), but it is actually in 4th or 3rd (it doesn't seem to get stuck in any particular gear). I cannot get it to downshift any further past this point unless while the clutch is disengaged I rev the engine a bit and then it will usually allow me to downshift further.

The oil level is fine (I just checked it) and was changed about 900 miles ago.

Any ideas? It is really irritating on a bike that only has about 4600 miles on it.

Chris

mp183 · September 01, 2004, 10:31:53 AM

You should be letting out the clutch out in every gear as you down shift. If you are just holding in the clutch and trying to go down through the gears it's not going to work.

rizp · September 01, 2004, 10:35:43 AM

My bike's got the same problem. I just figured it's a moderately crappy transmission. worse when it's cold, and occasionally finicky going from 1st to 2nd. My problem is usually resolved by a little bit of fidgeting with the lever and throttle.

Regards,
Riz

Alias · September 01, 2004, 10:51:41 AM

Quote from: mp183You should be letting out the clutch out in every gear as you down shift. If you are just holding in the clutch and trying to go down through the gears it's not going to work.

Ditto that. Its not like a car transmision. You need to rev match and let out the clutch when you downshift. You can go to 1st with the clutch in while braking.

1998_GS500 · September 01, 2004, 10:58:14 AM

Really? This is the first time I have heard anything like this including in the MSF course. In fact, shifting like this was working perfectly until fairly recently.

So, this would mean, that if you are in 6th, you should let out the clutch between every gear change even if stopped? This doesn't seem right.

Chris

scratch · September 01, 2004, 10:59:51 AM

When in 6th going say 60mph, and I start to slow down by:

Easing off the throttle and when I get to 50 mph, downshift to 5th,
Downshift to 4th, when I slow down to 4000 rpm,
And so on...

Actually, I down shift whenever I slow down to 4000 rpm, from whatever gear to whatever gear.

Ed_in_Az · September 01, 2004, 11:14:49 AM

I have never had a bike that wouldn't go through multiple gears at least fairly smoothly with the clutch in. With the GS, I'll use compression braking coming to a stop by shifting from 6th to 5th, then 4th, maybe 3rd. But then it's clutch in and click it down to first as I slow to a stop. Likewise, I can romp on it taking off going from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, then jump to 5th or 6th for cruising. If your transmission won't do this there IS a problem.

1998_GS500 · September 01, 2004, 11:18:01 AM

Quote from: Ed_in_AzI have never had a bike that wouldn't go through multiple gears at least fairly smoothly with the clutch in. With the GS, I'll use compression braking coming to a stop by shifting from 6th to 5th, then 4th, maybe 3rd. But then it's clutch in and click it down to first as I slow to a stop. Likewise, I can romp on it taking off going from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, then jump to 5th or 6th for cruising. If your transmission won't do this there IS a problem.

Thanks Ed, that is what I thought. It only seems to be a problem if the bike is warm. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what might be the cause or a probable solution?

Chris

chinox22x · September 01, 2004, 12:40:45 PM

I have an '04 GS. Usually I have no problems holding the clutch in and shifting from 5th to neutral and not letting go of the clutch. However, If i try to force it to first holding the clutch in you hear this nasty sound. So i usually just put it on neutral.

octane · September 01, 2004, 12:46:03 PM

It should let you shift more than one gear without letting the clutch back out. If the oil is fine, could be a bent shift fork or a mal-adjusted clutch. Does it grind?

1998_GS500 · September 01, 2004, 12:55:13 PM

Nope, no grind, just simply won't shift. It feels as if it is in first even though it is in a higher gear.

Chris

Steve500F · September 01, 2004, 12:55:39 PM

Quote from: chinox22xI have an '04 GS. Usually I have no problems holding the clutch in and shifting from 5th to neutral and not letting go of the clutch. However, If i try to force it to first holding the clutch in you hear this nasty sound. So i usually just put it on neutral.

I've got an '04 myself and I've noticed this...if you still wanna get into first, let the clutch out all the way after hitting neutral, then grab the clutch again and shift down to first...the "nasty sound" we're used to hearing should be gone for the most part doing it this way. Let me know if you see a difference, seems to work for me...

Steve

chinox22x · September 01, 2004, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: Steve500F
Quote from: chinox22xI have an '04 GS. Usually I have no problems holding the clutch in and shifting from 5th to neutral and not letting go of the clutch. However, If i try to force it to first holding the clutch in you hear this nasty sound. So i usually just put it on neutral.

I've got an '04 myself and I've noticed this...if you still wanna get into first, let the clutch out all the way after hitting neutral, then grab the clutch again and shift down to first...the "nasty sound" we're used to hearing should be gone for the most part doing it this way. Let me know if you see a difference, seems to work for me...

Steve

I've noticed that also and started doing it. Never thought about it till now that you mentioned it. Usually when I hit neutral the clutch goes free.

Ed_in_Az · September 01, 2004, 01:52:47 PM

As far as going from 2nd down to 1st through neutral the only limiting factor should be your speed. You'd better be going very slow or it won't sync and will grind. Along with that thought of course, as you are gearing down with the clutch in, when slowing down, consider your ground speed in relation to which gear you are passing through. Don't try to drop to 1st if you're still doing 45mph, even if you do have the clutch in. I match my shifts to my speed and drop to 1st just before coming to a halt, or bunch the downshifts together just before the stop. If you wait until stopped, you might have to gently rock the bike back and forth with the clutch in to complete the downshifting. Using any of these methods, there should be no grinding or complaining from the tranny or clutch.

mp183 · September 01, 2004, 02:57:35 PM

If you are not downshifting and letting out your clutch you might screw up your gear box. Letting out the clutch helps in braking and keeping you in control. I don't know where everyone rides, but around here you would be eating bumpers pretty quickly if you did not downshift while braking.
It's a good habit to use the clutch when downshifting. Trust me it will save your butt one of these days.

Ed_in_Az · September 01, 2004, 03:03:30 PM

Quote from: mp183If you are not downshifting and letting out your clutch you might screw up your gear box. Letting out the clutch helps in braking and keeping you in control. I don't know where everyone rides, but around here you would be eating bumpers pretty quickly if you did not downshift while braking.
It's a good habit to use the clutch when downshifting. Trust me it will save your butt one of these days.

Engine braking to supplement the wheels' brakes is a good practice.

"If you are not downshifting and letting out your clutch you might screw up your gear box."

Now that's just nonsense. Since the invention of the synchromesh transmission, many decades ago, there is no need for that.

mjm · September 01, 2004, 03:18:18 PM

Quote from: 1998_GS500Really? This is the first time I have heard anything like this including in the MSF course. In fact, shifting like this was working perfectly until fairly recently.

So, this would mean, that if you are in 6th, you should let out the clutch between every gear change even if stopped? This doesn't seem right.

Chris

If you were in 6th and stopped without downshifting, it is normal for a motorcycle transmission to give you trouble trying to shift down to first without letting the clutch out a little (not even enough to reach the normal friction point - but enough to jostle the gears in the transmission) at some point. Motorcycles use "constant mesh" transmissions in which all the gears are meshing (turning together) all the time - shifting is determining which sets of gears are locked to their respective shafts - anyway, getting everything to line up mostly calls for a little movement - or at least a bit of tension applied and released for everything to move smoothly.

All eight bikes I have owned have displayed this behavior while stopped. So its not that you have to "let the clutch out between every gear even if stopped" . It is you need to let the clutch out, at least sometimes, between gears especially when you are stopped.

Rema1000 · September 01, 2004, 06:46:07 PM

Quote from: Ed_in_AzNow that's just nonsense. Since the invention of the synchromesh transmission, many decades ago, there is no need for that.

I thought that motorcycles lacked synchro bearings?

I usually only downshift to 2nd as I approach a traffic light, just in case I have to go again; but then, if it looks like I'm stuck, then I'll shift down to 1st once I'm going pretty slowly. I haven't noticed the problem (going down to first), so perhaps by only shifting to 1st once I'm nearly stopped is side-stepping the issue.

Muldoon · September 01, 2004, 08:27:32 PM

In the old straight cut race boxes in the rally car, we had the same hassles if running without load. Say coming to a light, no throttle, low revs etc, gears hard to get in. On a special stage, no worries, bang it in. Its all to do with the speeds of the respective gears. On my bike, changing up I dont drop the revs all the way, just back off the throttle and it goes in smooth as silk. Same coming down, light rev and shift and in it goes. Alot of it is just technique but get your dealer to check it out anyways.

Gisser · September 01, 2004, 10:27:20 PM

QuoteI cannot get it to downshift any further past this point unless while the clutch is disengaged I rev the engine a bit and then it will usually allow me to downshift further.

The question of how to downshift thru the gears when coasting to a stoplight has been answered. Slow down before shifting. There's a couple reasons why it's hard to row down thru the gears at speed...

1. The ratios between the gears get progressively wider going down from 6-to-1. Bigger jumps are harder to clear.

2. When downshifting, the next gear never synchronizes with the output shaft as happens with an upshift. You've heard the term `bang a downshift ?'

Perhaps your revving the engine with the clutch in produces enough drag to spin the countershaft which then spins the gear on the output shaft which then matches the speed of each in the momentary neutral between shifts...well, you've gotta look at a picture to make any sense of this.

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GS Shifting Issues