hosed newbie... gs500e problems. :\

[megaira]

Hi, sorry to leap right in with a question before introduction...

A friend of mine took the msf course and bought a gs500e.  Her husband is not a rider, neither are from what I see mechanically inclined.  Because she's brand new and it's a tall bike not to mention the middle of the city, there was no test ride.  It sounded fine when she looked at it, apparantly -BUT, we had the class on Buell Blasts which are pretty rumbly, and the Suzuki is whisper quiet in comparison even running like crap (the backfires even!).

The seller apparantly rode it over to their house several miles away -I'm wondering how he did this.  He claimed it just had a full tuneup, fluids checked oil change, etc.

Hub and I went and picked up her bike tonight, got it home, hub took it for a spin around the immediate neighborhood to see how it went.   Resulting attitude from the bike has it now in pieces in our garage and thankful it was him that hopped on and not her first ride.  >(  

We thought it was just a crabby bike that needed a long warmup, but problems persisted after the warmup.

What I heard and observed (sorry it's not him writing this, but he's in the garage covered in gasoline and still going over it):  Engine started up badly, then would alternately idle at a scream (5000rpms or so?) and then cut out and stall.  The fuel switch being different than my bike's, we tried it straight up, then straight down...no change in behavior.  When he'd roll on the throttle, it would catch a couple times, then respond a second or two later.  Few backfires in there as well.  Even when riding it'd flip up to high rpms and cut out (adjusting the choke brought that down again, but even after that, it'd go back to idling fast).

Unfortunately, she has MOM, so we don't know if there's anything real basic we missed other than choke/fuel switch, but both were adjusted in the process and same results no matter what.

He took some things apart to take a look and do a full checkover on plugs, filter, etc.   None of the fluids in there are new, air filter is not new, spark plugs dirtier than heck, one of the cells(?) on the battery was nearly empty, the carbs are loose along with stuff around the carbs... there's a little hose sticking straight up about 1" out of the metal above the carbs that looks like it should be a vacuum hose, but has nothing attached to it.  Fuel lines were brittle, cracked and went kerpleooy right off the bat.  There's a small handful of other stuff and it looks like, to us at least, that the best bet is to take it to a dealer and have them go over it with a fine tooth comb from top to bottom.  

He cleaned up the plugs, tightened everything loose and did what he could, it's still happening.

I have a feeling the bike was sold with the "as is" clause, so I doubt there's much that can be done about it being - to my eye - kinda thrashed  despite him saying otherwise.  I have to double check with her to find out if he was a small dealer or what, as it was a classified ad.


SO, here is my question (finally) -before we go hauling it off to the dealer tuesday: is there anything that just popped into anyone's mind with what I described above that we may be missing or is a common issue with the GS500e?  Any advice?
 
Thanks in advance for your patience and help!!

~Cher

[destroyer]

Sounds like the bike may have sat around without being ridden for some time and the carbs have gotten gummed up inside.  When I bought my bike, it had been sitting and was doing pretty much what you described.  Took the carbs apart and found every one of the timy holes and orfices at least 90% clogged with varnish and gum.  Took two good cleanings to get them right.  I would start with a good, thourogh carb cleaning and see how it does.

Stephen

[megaira]

Thank you!   She's coming down here tomorrow, we'll see what she wants to do and give that a try first, then.

[davipu]

how many miles on the bike?

[megaira]

a little over 3k...

BTW, sorry I missed that thread up above w/"Carb? problems"  - sounds a lot like what we were hearing.

[pianopraze]

have faith.. it really sounds like the carbs.... mine was in storage for 3 years and i had VERY similar problems.... Kerry will probably help you on here soon, but look up threads with my name in it and see how a noob learned how to clean carbs correctly.

1. Go buy a manual for the bike ~20$us
2. Read the threads dealing with cleaning carbs

Don't worry... be happy you have a great bike... it can't help that it has been abused by someone not riding it :-( the only real money you will need to get it up and running is the money for the manual and carb cleaner (unless you are a complete noob like me and have to buy tools too :p)

[SPARKPLUG1977]

I would suggest going to a hond a dealer and buying some of their spray carb cleaner.  It's the best.  fill up your fuel line with the stuff, and then blast an air compressor thru the line alternating open and closed throttle. that is the quickest and easiest way to make sure all the "holes" arent gummy.  I just did it on a 1986 ninja that had been sitting for 10+ years.  after cleaning the sparkplugs and a good safety inspection of the bike, it runs like the day it rolled off the floor.

[megaira]

good to know.  Thanks for your help.

She's going to talk to the guy she bought it from tonight or tomorrow and see what he has to say.  If she keeps the bike, we'll be doing all that stuff.

[Rema1000]

Her husband is not a rider... hub took it for a spin around the immediate neighborhood to see how it went.

He's not a rider, and took it for a spin?    I'm glad it worked-out OK.

would alternately idle at a scream (5000rpms or so?) and then cut out and stall.

With the choke on full, my GS will normally warm-up at 3k at-first, then 4k.  Once fully warm, if you apply full choke, it will idle at 5k, but if you blip the throttle, it will often kill right as it comes back down to idle.   Additionally,  the choke cable is known to stick if left unused for a while.  Does that sound like it might be related?

If the choke was not on at the time, and idle is set correctly, there should be pretty-much no way for the bike to idle at 5000 rpm.  The proper idle is 1200, or maybe 1500 rpm.  Another reason that the engine could be racing, is that the throttle cable can be catching.  For example, turn the handlebars left and right, and watch for whether the idle goes up and down (or dies altogether).  If so, then the throttle cable is catching on something.

Another couple of simple checks are:

-spray WD40 around the boots where the engine meets the carburetors, and push the carbs a bit back and forth; if the idle goes up, then there is a vacuum leak there.

-change the plugs... who knows, maybe it's killing because one is intermittently fouling, or one plug has a cracked insulator?  This should only cost about $2-$4.

-replace the air filter; you can use a replacement, or there is a cheaper replacement filter from K&N.  This is more expensive, but Srinath has a cheaper "alternate method".

-drain the carbs' float bowls:  water collects in the fuel tank; this water can  get sucked down into the carbs.  Each carb has a drain screw and a little drain nipple; use a hose to drain gas from each carb into a gas can.  In fact, you probably want to drain out all the gas you can, and put fresh gas in.  You can probably get more of the gas out when the bike is on sidestand than centerestand.

-check the oil level: you put the bike on centerstand, then unscrew and remove the dipstick, wipe it off, the n put it down into the oil without screwing it in.  If it looks low, don't add too much: the difference betwen the "too low" and 'too high" marks is less than 1/2 quart.

One note about the gummed-up jets: the pilot jets get gummed-up quite easily.  However, their importance goes down quite a bit as rpm's climb.  If the bike is warmed-up, and you shut-off the choke, then hold the throttle to keep RPMs up higher (say, 8k rpm, which will be VERY loud!), and the engine smooths-out, then that could mean that the pilot jets are bad.  But if the bike still runs rough, even at 8k RPM, then plugged pilots seems like a stretch.  The main jets, which make the big difference at 8k RPM, are big enough that they don't normally get too gummed-up.

-Try running with the gas cap open.

The fuel switch being different than my bike's, we tried it straight up, then straight down...no change in behavior.

The fuel has three positions "ON", which takes fuel from higher in the tank; "RES" which takes fuel from the bottom, and "PRI" which takes fuel from the bottom, but which also works when there is no vacuum (like when the engine isn't running yet).  For troubleshooting, "PRI" is a good setting to use.  

there's a little hose sticking straight up about 1" out of the metal above the carbs that looks like it should be a vacuum hose, but has nothing attached to it.

Check http://grapeape.specialgreen.com/img/HoseRouting.pdf ...  if it looks like #6, then that's OK.  

If you post where you're located, there may be someone here local to you who might give it a quick look.  The greatest feature of the GS is its simplicity: it's a bit like an old VW Beetle (except simpler , so someone who rides a GS may be able to spot something you haven't.

[megaira]

Thanks, I'll fwd those suggestions to (my) Hubby.

I'm in Denver, btw.

He's not a rider, and took it for a spin?  I'm glad it worked-out OK.

LOL no, my friend's husband is not a rider (yet).  My husband is the one that took it out for a spin -I usually refer to him as "Hub" anywhere online.  I wasn't clear there, my mistake.

The fuel has three positions "ON", which takes fuel from higher in the tank; "RES" which takes fuel from the bottom, and "PRI" which takes fuel from the bottom, but which also works when there is no vacuum (like when the engine isn't running yet). For troubleshooting, "PRI" is a good setting to use.

I wondered! Thanks.