Bike won't start - now it happened to me :(

[GSUser]

It's very frustrating when you sit all geared up, afgter all the preride checks, hit that starter button and @%@#$

Here's my problem:

I hit the starter button, hear the starter crank.  Then I can hear the engine start turning for a split of a second and then it dies.  When starter starts cranking, oil light goes off.  After a few seconds, the oil light comes back on, but I assume that that's because oil pressure drops and it's ok (as when you just turn on the ignition).  Am I correct?

Another serious thing I noticed is that the clutch does not seem to disengage completely.  When in first, with lever fully pulled in, it's very hard to rock the bike back and forth.  No problem in neutral.  The bike still does not start in neutral though.  Could this be preventing the bike from starting?

I rode yesterday for a couple of hours, some time in traffic. It seemed fine, except for slightly high idle speed with clutch lever pulled in (at traffic lights).  Could this be a warning sign?

The cylinder cover (joint next to the spark plug) is leaking some oil, but very small amounts.  I checked oil level (when bike is cold, 'cause i can't start it) and it's almost at the F mark, so I couldn't have lost that much oil.  Also I had an oil change recently.

Can anyone please point me in a direction?

Thanks

[pantablo]

I hit the starter button, hear the starter crank. ...

Lets start with the basics: check that the bike has fuel. Fuel in tank will look about 1/2 full when its necessary to switch to reserve. Check the petcock and if its in the "ON" position try changing it to "RES" and try starting it then.

Another serious thing I noticed is that the clutch does not seem to disengage completely....

It would not allow the starter to turn if it were affecting the starting of the bike so I dont think it is related. What you describe sounds normal for most bikes, not only the gs.

I rode yesterday for a couple of hours... except for slightly high idle speed ...

Normal to have a high idle on bikes that have stock carburetor jetting. The bikes come lean from the factory to meet EPA regulations. Rejetting carbs cures this and also eliminated the long warm up time. Check my site on rejetting. There are a couple of good "how-to's written by members here as well as the general info I have on my site that might help you understand this more. In leiu of rejetting you could simply let the bike warm up and then adjust the idle speed down a bit, to about 2k instead of the 3+k you're probably experiencing. This will mean it will idle real low when its not warmed up but better to lower the idle at warm engine, when you'll be doing most of your riding.

The cylinder cover (joint next to the spark plug) is leaking some oil...

This is not an uncommon leak point. Could be that you might have overfilled it and the pressure forced some oil out there. Clean it off and keep an eye on it to see if it continues in the coming months. As long as the oil level is maintained it shouldnt have an adverse affect on the bike.

[GSUser]

Lets start with the basics: check that the bike has fuel. Fuel in tank will look about 1/2 full when its necessary to switch to reserve. Check the petcock and if its in the "ON" position try changing it to "RES" and try starting it then.

I am going to try reserver when I get home, but I doubt it very much because I refilled the tank recently.

Another serious thing I noticed is that the clutch does not seem to disengage completely....

It would not allow the starter to turn if it were affecting the starting of the bike so I dont think it is related. What you describe sounds normal for most bikes, not only the gs.

Could you please elaborate what do you mean by  sounds normal?  What I have is the following: when I pull in the clutch, I can barely move the bike forward, and almost impossible to move it backwards.  On neutral it's practically rolling.  I don't think I noticed this happening before, think before I could coast on neutral no problem.

Normal to have a high idle on bikes that have stock carburetor jetting. The bikes come lean from the factory to meet EPA regulations. Rejetting carbs cures this and also eliminated the long warm up time. Check my site on rejetting.

Thanks for this info, I am gonna look into it.

The cylinder cover (joint next to the spark plug) is leaking some oil...

This is not an uncommon leak point. Could be that you might have overfilled it and the pressure forced some oil out there.

Ok that's what I thought.   But I am completely bummed about not being able to start the bike.  Are you sure the clutch is not preventing it?  If I try to start in 1st (with clutch pulled in) the bike rocks forward slightly before the engine dies.  If I start in neutral, the engine still dies, but the bike doesn't rock forward.  Seems like something is definately wrong with the clutch

[scratch]

Are you sure the clutch is not preventing it?  If I try to start in 1st (with clutch pulled in) the bike rocks forward slightly before the engine dies.  If I start in neutral, the engine still dies, but the bike doesn't rock forward.  Seems like something is definately wrong with the clutch

When you are in first gear and the bike lurches forward, that tells me that the clutch is out of adjustment, and is causing the starter motor to "push" the bike through the clutch, so of course it wont start because the starter motor is trying to turn over a motor that is in gear with the clutch out (or, out of adjustment).

[pantablo]

If the bike lurches forward and immediately dies, like it would if you hit the starter with it in gear (or like it would do in your manual trans car too) then what scratch says might do the trick. I thought it stuttered and/or ran for a brief moment.

[GSUser]

If the bike lurches forward and immediately dies, like it would if you hit the starter with it in gear (or like it would do in your manual trans car too) then what scratch says might do the trick. I thought it stuttered and/or ran for a brief moment.

By clutch adjustment, do you mean the amount of cable freeplay? If so, you are giving me hope.

Let me just clarify something - it does lurch forward as if the bike was in gear (although the clutch is pulled in), and then dies, you understood correctly.  However, it does NOT lurch forward when the bike is in neutral, but still dies.  I guess my question is, would the engine still stall if the clutch was out of adjustment, yet I attempted to start it in neutral? Again, I have no resistance whatsoever rolling the wheel in neutral.

Thanks

[pantablo]

I'm not sure. But a clutch adjustment is relatively easy to do. I'd start there. Scratch, what do you think?

[Kerry]

Let me just clarify something - it does lurch forward as if the bike was in gear (although the clutch is pulled in), and then dies, you understood correctly.  However, it does NOT lurch forward when the bike is in neutral, but still dies.  I guess my question is, would the engine still stall if the clutch was out of adjustment, yet I attempted to start it in neutral? Again, I have no resistance whatsoever rolling the wheel in neutral.

Except for the engine dying part, this is exactly how my '99 currently acts when the bike has been sitting for a few hours.  (In other words, both when I start up at home in the morning and when I start up to come home from the office.)

My bike's forward lurch is just momentary, but it can take a person by surprise if they're not expecting it.  To avoid possible mishaps I have taken to starting the bike in neutral.  Should I adjust the clutch?  Maybe.  Would it have anything to do with a bike not starting?  I really doubt it.

QUESTION:  Will your starter motor crank as long as you have the button pushed in, or does it cut out after a brief spin?  I'm trying to determine whether you have an electrical symptom somewhere in the starter motor circuit, or whether the starter motor does its job and starts the bike - only to have the engine die right away.

[GSUser]

QUESTION:  Will your starter motor crank as long as you have the button pushed in, or does it cut out after a brief spin?  I'm trying to determine whether you have an electrical symptom somewhere in the starter motor circuit, or whether the starter motor does its job and starts the bike - only to have the engine die right away.

Hi Kerry,
I think it's the latter.  What happens is that the starter motor would stop by itself, but only after it cranks the engine.  I  do hear a short "VROOM" of the engine after the starter motor (maybe making a couple revolutions) and then the engine cuts out.

[Kerry]

Are you pulling the choke lever all the way towards you before starting?  Probably so, or the engine would likely never "catch" in the first place.

Still, it doesn't hurt to ask....

[GSUser]

Are you pulling the choke lever all the way towards you before starting?  Probably so, or the engine would likely never "catch" in the first place.

Still, it doesn't hurt to ask....

Yes I am pulling the choke.  But before even if I didn't the engine would stall later if it were cold.  Currently, with full choke, engine only does 1-2 cycles and then dies.  Btw, have we fully established that my clutch plates not disengaging does not have an influence on the bike not starting in neutral?

[Kerry]

have we fully established that my clutch plates not disengaging does not have an influence on the bike not starting in neutral?

Again, I don't see how it could have any influence.

If the rear wheel spins freely in neutral (except for chain drag etc.) then the clutch is "out of the loop".

And my bike starts in gear, with the clutch lever pulled in, even though it "lurches" like yours.  So there's even less reason to suspect the clutch.

[GSUser]

If the rear wheel spins freely in neutral (except for chain drag etc.) then the clutch is "out of the loop".

And my bike starts in gear, with the clutch lever pulled in, even though it "lurches" like yours.  So there's even less reason to suspect the clutch.

Actually, here's a thought.  Mine is an '02, and it has some kind of a sensor, such that the bike will stall if you let kick stand out while the engine is running.  Similarly it would not start if the clutch lever is not depressed.  So is it possible that the sensor is killing the engine because clutch does not disengage completely... hmmm

[scratch]

The starter would not even turn over the motor if that circuit is tripped. It is an ignition cutout, designed to prevent the motor from even starting before everything is in its proper place.

We addressed the easy thing first which is the clutch adjustment (cable slack).

Now the hard part: getting the motor to run in neutral.

Try partial choke.

Questions: Is your bike's engine and carburetors completely stock?
Have you taken apart your carbs? When and what did you do?
Has your bike been sitting for a while? How long?

Someone will have to step in until 7:30am, Pacific coast time, when I come back to work. Good evening.

[Rema1000]

By clutch adjustment, do you mean the amount of cable freeplay? If so, you are giving me hope.

Read the post
http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99649#99649
...and the post after that, with the pictures.  You only need your fingers and maybe a wrench to adjust the clutch freeplay.

[GSUser]

By clutch adjustment, do you mean the amount of cable freeplay? If so, you are giving me hope.

Read the post
http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99649#99649
...and the post after that, with the pictures.  You only need your fingers and maybe a wrench to adjust the clutch freeplay.

Thanks a lot to everyone for your help. I was able to start the bike finally. When I went to adjust the clutch play at the leveer, turns out the bolt (screw on which the two adjusters travel) is broken. I don't think it's a separate part, so I will need to replace the whole cable.

Once I get a new cable, is it necessary to grease it before installing?

Again, thanks a lot for all the help, it's been very useful

[Kerry]

I was able to start the bike finally.

Yes!  

When I went to adjust the clutch play at the leveer, turns out the bolt (screw on which the two adjusters travel) is broken. I don't think it's a separate part, so I will need to replace the whole cable.

That is correct.

Once I get a new cable, is it necessary to grease it before installing?

It couldn't hurt.  For some ideas on lubrication methods, see the stiff clutch thread.

[fourqbt]

 
Have a Kwacker used to lerch when started in first and would not roll easy if pushed with clutch in, chenged clutch springs and all was fine. Real easy job to do and low cost too.
Starting problem..??
I would check the float bowls, put a small hose onto the drain line for each carb and open the drain screw but catch the contents in a clear container, you could have varnish deposits or even water from the tank mixed in with the fuel.
The water wont easily move from the carbs but will come out and the fuel will settle on the top when drained. If water or contamination is found then drain your tank completely and let it air off in a warm garage for a couple of days. Dump the old fuel and try again


They say its never too late to learn, I just wish someone would start to teach me