bad alternator/generator?

[se7enty7]

TOTAL EDIT:

My bike has a brand new battery; and isn't charging it.  Here are the symptoms:
Blows fuses when using 2A charger.. Even blows a 25A fuse..
Blows fuse when bike is shutoff with high beams on.

Battery doesn't charge; and voltage doesn't change when revved (lights don't get brighter, etc.)

Does this sound like the alt?  My voltage regulator or whatnot had corroded-ish looking power connector (one is a two prong; one is a three prong.  The two prong black/red connector was kind of burnt looking and corroded.


!!!!EDIT:!!!!!!
The guy I bought it from jumped it off from a RUNNING car.  I just read that this will blow the regulator almost for sure.....  is it possible that my stator is fine; and my charging problem is a blown regulator?  The shop said that they "disconnected the stator and the fuse stopped blowing; but my regulator may be bad as well"

[The Buddha]

Man you have a dead short in the wiring somewhere... or battery isn't actually getting charged, it will run for a good ~ 1/2 hour (more like 20-25 mins) on battery alone... that is if it was getting no charge at all. Now if the alternator is partially burnt, you'll get some charge and it will run longer, if the regulator is fried, then the battery wont get charge at all or get a bunch of AC and heat up and swellup ... and that might make it die. If you have some weird clunking noises at start up comming from left side of engine... you may have goats syndrome... alternator Magnet shattering... Yea happened to me (what hasn't) but goat had it first. Fair bet... dead freaking short... second choice - alternator 1/2 burnt... or fully burnt. Third choice... OK I dont think likely - but bad battery, 4th goats syndrome. Do this... get it started and check voltage across battery... now that works well with a charged battery... so charge it first. BTW you should always test your electricals with a fully charged battery. There is like 4-5 simple tests ... call me in a bit or hell I'll put it in the FAQ section in a bit.
Cool.
Srinath.

[se7enty7]

okay. This morning she was almost totally dead.  I hooked her up to the charger and charged for like maybe 5 min... not long.  Unhooked battery charger and it started right up and ran fine.  Rode to work; two hours later I went out to go to the bank and the battery was nearly dead.  I coasted down the hill; put it in third and let out the clutch and she started.  I then got about halfway home and she started running wierd not wanting to hold idle; then died and wouldn't start.  

I got someone to give me a jump and it ran for maybe 5 minutes then died again.

Again; this is on the sideways mounted wal-mart battery.


so... tonight I'll use srinath's post to test things.  I do know that when I would hook up even a charged battery there was little to no spark to the posts when connecting the battery.

[The Buddha]

Alternator... battery seems fine, getting partial charge, rules out regulator cos they are all or nothing, or does the battery seem bulged out... if so regulator putting out AC... else alternator not putting out enough... resistance check will show low ohms...1.5 or less = bad... it will run all the way down to .7... dont ask how I know... my vulcan ran 6 months as its resistance went from 1.5 to .7 as it was burning... alternators usually fail slowly... its a mechanical device and has elecrtical components... not electronic... those go in 1 sec...
Cool.
Srinath.

[Zarathustra]

also, i don't know where you're located, but with the recent cold weather, i know my battery gets sapped over night.  i've had to bump start my bike in the morning on occasion last winter and this one already as the battery just gets too cold and sapped out during the night.  so if you're in a colder climate this might be happening to you, and then all i can recommend is a full charge up, and topping off your fluids.

[The Buddha]

He's not in cold weather... yet or ever... atlanta... been in the mid 50 for morning lows around here in Charlotte... he's prolly warmer
Cool.
Srinath.

[se7enty7]

yep plus I've got a garaged attached to my townhouse that doesn't ever get below about 55 or 60...



Okay... I got it home (took the batt home and charged it..) and noticed something.  My lights don't get brighter when I rev my engine.

[se7enty7]

bump for a resolution....

[Richard UK]

4 A is too much for a little battery like that.  You'll get plenty of people who will say they charge theirs at a zillion amps and it's never gone wrong; but too much current and you risk warping the plates through over heating, then the battery is just junk. Play safe, don't exceed more than 1 A or so, 2A at the most.

[se7enty7]

OKAY


figured out a couple things.  
1) I figured out what was blowing fuses.  When I turn off the bike with the lights on HIGH the fuse blows.  Doesn't happen when lights are on low.

2) When I rev the engine the voltage doesn't change at all across my battery... it might even dip slightly.

3) The red/black connector on the regulator was corroded.  It looked like the connector was maybe heat warped a little bit... I cleaned it off but still the voltage doesn't change when engine revved..... what next?

[se7enty7]

where is the AC generator?  I ordered a clymers manual but it's not here yet... my suzuki manual doesn't say where it is; just how to test it.

[se7enty7]

4 A is too much for a little battery like that.  You'll get plenty of people who will say they charge theirs at a zillion amps and it's never gone wrong; but too much current and you risk warping the plates through over heating, then the battery is just junk. Play safe, don't exceed more than 1 A or so, 2A at the most.

upon further inspection I was charging it at 2 amps... the lowest my charger will go.




Grr.... I'm assuming it's the alt...

[The Buddha]

2 amp 4 amp, I have set it at 10...the battery will draw only dependent on its internal resistance... which is not to say high amps wont hurt...a fully charged batt willonly take under 1 amp... while a dead one will suck all you give it... Voltage not changing when you rev... ok that is one symptom, but what voltage you got... BTW a full pumped battery will read 13 V or so, and when idling you should register a little more. Also at revs close to dirving speed, your electrical system is putting out a good bit of amps...suffice to say 4 amps wont have hurt anyhting.... unless you have a dead short... revving up and voltage dipping... = alternator ... why...as you rev the bike will eat more electricty... it pumps up the spark and sparks more times a second, not to mention other internal losses like black box electronics etc... Your alternator should be able to cover it comfortably... now the alternator should cover it at idle as well... the alternator output is linearly dependent on rpm minus its internal losses which actually depend on square of rpm, but the bulbs dont get 2 times as bright at 2K compared to 1K... that surplus drops into the battery and heat sink (regulator) ... sparks pull energy and that also starts to go up with rpm and it also is non linear... oh bloody hell I have no clue what it depends on... but ~7-8K rpm the losses catch up to alternator, and its left with 0 surplus around that rpm... So increasing to 7-8K and then slowly dropping off... should be voltage pattern.
Resistance test for coils is next,and short to ground... if you have short to ground you might have goats syndrome... - bad... but its very rare.
Cool.
Srinath.

[John Bates]

TOTAL EDIT:

My bike has a brand new battery; and isn't charging it.  Here are the symptoms:
Blows fuses when using 2A charger.. Even blows a 25A fuse..
Blows fuse when bike is shutoff with high beams on.

Battery doesn't charge; and voltage doesn't change when revved (lights don't get brighter, etc.)

Does this sound like the alt?  My voltage regulator or whatnot had corroded-ish looking power connector (one is a two prong; one is a three prong.  The two prong black/red connector was kind of burnt looking and corroded.

My guess is that you have a couple shorted diodes in the rectifier.  This would allow your battery to discharge while the bike is turned off and keep the battery from charging while the bike is running.  A short like this plus the added drain from the high beams may explain the blown fuse.

Electrexusa describes how to use an ohmeter to test the RR unit.

So does Clymer however they caution to only use a Suzuki test meter for these tests.

[se7enty7]

TOTAL EDIT:

My bike has a brand new battery; and isn't charging it.  Here are the symptoms:
Blows fuses when using 2A charger.. Even blows a 25A fuse..
Blows fuse when bike is shutoff with high beams on.

Battery doesn't charge; and voltage doesn't change when revved (lights don't get brighter, etc.)

Does this sound like the alt?  My voltage regulator or whatnot had corroded-ish looking power connector (one is a two prong; one is a three prong.  The two prong black/red connector was kind of burnt looking and corroded.

My guess is that you have a couple shorted diodes in the rectifier.  This would allow your battery to discharge while the bike is turned off and keep the battery from charging while the bike is running.  A short like this plus the added drain from the high beams may explain the blown fuse.

Electrexusa describes how to use an ohmeter to test the RR unit.

So does Clymer however they caution to only use a Suzuki test meter for these tests.

hmm... it looks like there's one on ebay.  too bad it doesn't end for 3 days (can't ride this weekend!)

Thanks!

[se7enty7]

can a 'generic' rectifier/regulator be used?

[The Buddha]

Ok the regulators are all sorta generic... but the damn GS ones are those weird 2 wire pigtail plug ones ... making it hard to get a generic to fit...
You check the resistance in the 3 alternator coils and ground short/open. Your blowing fuses sounds like you have high voltage on the battery side of the regulator, now that might also indicate a short to ground in the alternator... which BTW will take out your regulator as well. Dropping a good regulator on a bad alternator will fry your regulator, and a bad regulator will of course fry your alternator in some cases... ergo... your analysis and testing isn't done until you have found everything that is whrong with the electrical system... and fix it all in 1 sweep... BTW a dead short in the wiring also will kill the reg, alt, and the batt and blow fuses. I have never stopped kicking myself for not testing these when you were here... Its easy... I'd have done it all in 10 mins ... recently I tested it all when my 89 went down with goats syndrome...
Cool.
Srinath.

[John Bates]

can a 'generic' rectifier/regulator be used?

I would think so but if it's not specifically for the GS500e then you would want to know something about it.

Based on what I have read:

Input voltage: at least 75V, 100V better.

Current capacity: 30 amps min. at 14V output.

450 watts is probably ok.


Electrexusa has one specifically for the gs500e at $125.
They are expensive so before installing a new one make sure , like Srinath says, other parts of the electrical system are OK.

[se7enty7]

had a talk with a local shop.. the guy charged me $65 to diagnose it with me... when we unplugged the stator the fuse stopped blowing and the stator tested bad.  He said the RR *might* be bad but you can't tell for sure until I have a new stator


The place charges $65 an hour for all work; and he'll charge me 1.25 hours for a stator replacement....


how hard is it to replace the stator?





Thanks!

[The Buddha]

Yea my bet was that... short to ground... making for a AC in a DC circuit... seen it, done it, and goddamm it wound my own damn stator when I was unemployed... last time...
Stator is easy to replace, and please replace the RR ... a AC in the DC side of RR means the RR is toast. Buy it and swap it out... 20 mins for stator, and 2 mins for RR. Your best bet is a electrex one for both, if some one is selling a known good set then buy it and save yourself $$$.
BTW if its goats syndrome... open the left side and see if you see a chipped/broken/shattered magnet... then add that to your list of replacements. You'll need a left side cover gasket as well... might as well change oil and save the oil leakage...
Cool.
Srinath.