OK Clipon's for 90-04 are here

[aplitz]

You are missing the point.  Looking at the simplicity of your other bars I would not have said that testing was needed, but apparently there was.  Now, you say there isn't any need, but I challenge you to find any company that introduces any product to the market as an untested prototype.  Obviously nothing was learned during the last go round.

[The Buddha]

Simplicity ... hell no ... The handlebars I made 2 bend and 2 weld were anyhting but simple ... once again aplitz you are talking about things you have not seen or even tried to imagine ...
BTW I have said its a block of 6061 aluminum and at the thinnest point its 3/8'th of an inch (OK fine measured it... its 37 hundredths ... so .37 inches ) ... like I said no way to test it...
For those reading this and not knowing what the entire story was...
I made handlebars, 1 broke when the user hit a pickup truck head on ... I recalled the bars ... all of the 36 or so I had made and sold to that point ...
A month or so later ... with some bars still not back to me yet ... 2 of them broke when they were riding ... Then they posted saying take the recall seriously .... then I got the bars and swapped them for the rod insert ...
We had a long discussion with aplitz saying I should stop making bars or anything altogether ...and the rod inside is just a bandaid ... and eventually he said they should be "Plug welded" to the rod ... and I said they are ...
Then a couple months later with my bars on the bike Mercdude slides on a wet inspection plate and crashes into a telephone pole ... and the bars dont break... I also test a good dozen before I send any out... so I know what they can take...
That brings us to our current situation ... clip on's need to be tested ...
I have a nut inside a tube welded up... and tested ... very well ... this is the third iteration of these bars ... so the nut in the tube is tested well at this point ... the other piece is a block of 6061 which I machined out to go on the fork tube and take the bars with 1 bolt...
Its a copy of the tommaselli's I have had on my 90 which I crashed and I know exactly where it broke ... I'll see if I can get a pic of the thing ... and that part in this is much beefier as is the whole piece ... I'llput up pics of a SV clip on and a Honda F3 clip on an well as a stock 89 GS clip on ... None of those are any thicker than 1/4 wall and they are all cast shaZam! ... These are thicker by atleast 50% and better ... much better material ... The welded part was tested ... and the other part is a block of aluminum ...
BTW the bars that were the problem was one lot of 12 ... where they were ground out very smooth ... like they weren't even welded I broke them all ... all 36 of it and just about 9 broke wihtout making me think the stock one will have bent into a pretzel for this force ...When they were made  There was some lapse in communication and one guy welded it and another guy ground off everyhting to look pretty ... making for no welds...  :x ... and he did it when I wasn't there ... now I am there with my stuff and when I leave I take it all with me ... anyway ... The design is a tommaselli knock off and the material I used is better and beefier by a lot ...which is what I have to say for this ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[96gs]

Those look great in the pics. They look like a good finish. Mad props to Srinath for the clip-ons!!!!    

[se7enty7]

Srinath;

What you do for the GS community is greatly appreciated.  While questioning your tactics or methods is good, imo, it is well understood that these bars will hold up.

[The Buddha]

Thanks guys... far from taking it as blind faith... The point in other words ...
Before they will fail in regular use they will spin on the fork tubes... If that happens You either cinch it down tighter or stuff like a inner tube or a foam pad in there and cinch it down... I have also heard of 2 sided emblem tape or tin foil from people that work well... In case of crash ... they will still most likely spin but mine were lifted up (if the bike was upright it would have been up) when the bike slid ... and that broke the bolt ear part ... These are not the ear type ... they are 1 block... This idea has been in my head for 5 years ... The tommasellis are good except for that 1 aspect and they are thin and made from cast aluminum...
BTW on a side note jacob having an 89 you have to think along these lines ... and in 2000 mine got boogered  :x ... the helicoil fix is holding but I haven't crashed or seriously stressed the left side so far ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[The Buddha]

http://www.bevelheaven.com/stuff-for-sale-clipons.htm

OK these are like the ones I has... the part where the bar goes in pretty much got sheared off ... they seem to have re designed them to make it beefier ... mine (bought in 97 and broke in 99) were't as thick on the part that bolts through ... and they are still doing cast aluminum I see ... MIne are far thicker than these everywhere and is 6061 to boot.
Cool.
Srinath.

[aplitz]

Judging by your replies I would say that I hit a nerve, and yet again you miss the point.  Your old bars were simple, with minimal bends and welds.  Just by looking at them, one would conclude that they would be fine.  However, some broke so apparently testing was necessecary.

In this case, your product also seems simple, and is essentially a copy of someone else's work.  However, to be arrogant enough to conclude that you don't need to test shows an irresposibility that bothers me.  So what if you think they will be OK?  Without proof that is as goos as the threads in the Tard Farm.  Just opinion.

Now, I may be misunderstanding you here, since I find your posts difficult to follow.  So please let me know if I am misinformed.  I too appreciate your ingenuity and dedication to the GS community, but that does not give you a free pass on poor engineering.  If you were a retired engineer, or racer, or welder I would feel better, but from our prior discussions, I am not convinced of your ability.  Please, for the sake of the community, take every precaution to insure the safety of your buyers.

[se7enty7]

Judging by your replies I would say that I hit a nerve, and yet again you miss the point.  Your old bars were simple, with minimal bends and welds.  Just by looking at them, one would conclude that they would be fine.  However, some broke so apparently testing was necessecary.

In this case, your product also seems simple, and is essentially a copy of someone else's work.  However, to be arrogant enough to conclude that you don't need to test shows an irresposibility that bothers me.  So what if you think they will be OK?  Without proof that is as goos as the threads in the Tard Farm.  Just opinion.

Now, I may be misunderstanding you here, since I find your posts difficult to follow.  So please let me know if I am misinformed.  I too appreciate your ingenuity and dedication to the GS community, but that does not give you a free pass on poor engineering.  If you were a retired engineer, or racer, or welder I would feel better, but from our prior discussions, I am not convinced of your ability.  Please, for the sake of the community, take every precaution to insure the safety of your buyers.

no offense.. and it might be saturday night talking.. but let me sum it up.



If you don't trust srinath, THEN DON'T BUY THE BARS.  

I have SEEN what he does.  I've SEEN his work.  He was willing to recall.. what? 30+ bars???  Good grief what do you want?? obviously he is willing to back up what he makes and does.  These bars are obviously sound.

I went to his house.. I talked to him...  You can trust him, and his work....   aplitz wow what a good samariton you've made your point now move on man....


Buy them or don't.  I was there, and I can vouch that he is obviously willing to back up his work/word.  Sorry for being so harsh but we get the point.


ugh a mod can edit this if they/he/she wants but good grief
-se7

[aplitz]

Se7-

You are falling into that GST attitude of "he's a good guy so his products must be good."  So by your rationale; since he is willing to back up a product when it fails, I should be fine using it even if it fails because it is untested.  But its OK since after I crash he'll stand behind the product.  The other bars looked OBVIOUSLY sound too, but that fell through in the real world didn't it?  He was willing to recall 30+ bars?  Yeah, I think it was required that he did, willing or not.  What do I want? I want him to prove the roadworthiness of these bars, and not send out a prototype to a group of people that I consider bretheren.

[se7enty7]

Se7-

You are falling into that GST attitude of "he's a good guy so his products must be good."  So by your rationale; since he is willing to back up a product when it fails, I should be fine using it even if it fails because it is untested.  But its OK since after I crash he'll stand behind the product.  The other bars looked OBVIOUSLY sound too, but that fell through in the real world didn't it?  He was willing to recall 30+ bars?  Yeah, I think it was required that he did, willing or not.  What do I want, I want him to prove the roadworthyness of these bars, and not send out a prototype to a group of people that is consider bretheren.

srinath... tru true but honestlt its the saturday night jouice talking..   I saw your stuff; I trust you maek a good prodcut,  looks, tried and true or buying from and unknown seller??? srinet-h=== i saw, ad it's good stuff....... other peoiple== not troed and ture

[PneumaticPanther]

Srinath,

I'm new to this board so I don't know anything about this prior situation that's being mentioned.  Do you have a background in machining or manufacturing?  You seem to have quite a bit of faith in these bars, and judging from all the posts of yours I've read it seems like you machine a lot, so I would trust you have a sound bed of experience.  Also, you've been saying that you're unable to test portions of these bars, is this due to a lack of specialized equipment?  My roommate's brother is a mechanical engineering grad student here and might have access to an Instron machine or other quantitative testing devices (as might others on this forum).  I'm more or less neutral in this since I'm a newbie and my bike is costing me enough as it is without any new pieces :x.  From what I've seen you're a nice guy and you know your stuff, but credentials and quantitative (or well regimented qualitative) testing always helps.

[The Buddha]

OK Fine...
I have a Bachelors in Technology (equivalent of a BS) in civil engineering from IIT madras (now Chennai) ... Class of 91. Matters little ... I have done software for a living for 13 years ...
Anyway ... I took the tommasellis and improved the design like I said ... and made it with batter materials ... I'll send it out to anyone that knows what 6061 is and what its strength and capacities are ... and if they tell me anyhitng is to be changed I'll change it ...
However Aplitz you are not getting one point ...
Before they break under normal use they will rotate on the fork leg ... then you cinch it down or stuff emblem tape inside it and cinch it...
If you crash the thing might break ... usually it will rotate but if the bike slides on the bars for a bit it will break... Now the tommaselli's are also the same way ... and the bolt ears will break in it, and on mine it is going to be the same case... but will need greater force/impact. Now no one stands behind their product if you crash ... surprise surprise ...
Essentially the failure is controlled by the design ... The other bars will break under normal use ... there was no design feature making it immune to certain types of failure ... These have the limitation ... only 1 way to get them to fail ... crash and have the bar lifted up while sliding ...
Testing it with any means is like testing the strength of billet 6061 ... Honestly if you saw it you'll know... Fork braces also haven't been tested ...why ... its a slab of aluminum ... I have had a machinist do much of the work... no question he says its going to be gorilla strong ... He has seen the tommaselli's and he said there is one more flaw in it which also I have eliminated ... the part of the bar that goes into the clamp is too gradual of a taper ...making it easier to spread the clamp part in that area whihc is where mine failed... though its not why I think. Mine is a steeper taper and there is no way to get it to spread the clamp part...
Cool.
Srinath.

[The Buddha]

Srinath,

I'm new to this board so I don't know anything about this prior situation that's being mentioned.  Do you have a background in machining or manufacturing?  You seem to have quite a bit of faith in these bars, and judging from all the posts of yours I've read it seems like you machine a lot, so I would trust you have a sound bed of experience.  Also, you've been saying that you're unable to test portions of these bars, is this due to a lack of specialized equipment?  My roommate's brother is a mechanical engineering grad student here and might have access to an Instron machine or other quantitative testing devices (as might others on this forum).  I'm more or less neutral in this since I'm a newbie and my bike is costing me enough as it is without any new pieces :x.  From what I've seen you're a nice guy and you know your stuff, but credentials and quantitative (or well regimented qualitative) testing always helps.

I believe I can put it in a vise and pretty much break the clamp part ... however what is the goal ... They will not see that sorta loading in regular use ... I put the bars in a vice and used a 3 foot pole and tried to break them... if they broke they were not good... and a bunch broke ... that was relevant cos they will see that type of load in that same direction under regular use ... Under normal use... in the worst case situation these will spin on the fork legs ... OK they will hit the dash or the other parts of the triple ... but they still have a good 20 degrees they will spin before hitting anything ...by which point you'd have noticed ... They have a chance to break only in the even of a sliding crash ... pull up on the bar and they may break... though mine I believe will slide out of the fork leg over the top. Still could break...
Cool.
Srinath.

[The Buddha]

OK fine... after a good long talk with my machinist ... his suggestion ... change the bolts that I am using to pinch ... special order ... lots of 100 ... from the same place I bought 100 of those famous 12 inch ones for case savers ... I want stainless steel only ... lets see how much the damn tihngs cost ...  :x ... The allen heads I was using are fine but they let most of the load on a 5/8th diameter area ... he thought spreading it will make it even stronger ... he also said .... these are unbreakable as is ... They will come off if you crash... we tried it a dozen times ... with a 10 foot pole on the handle bar ... they come off ... to the extent they dont fit the bike now ... they are far too loose ...  :x ... and they have numerous impact marks from us whacking it up or down ... They are a cap ... and like any incident involving a cap ... it slips off ... like all rednecks know ... you fall off a horse and you'll have to look for your hat ...   :lol:  :lol:  :lol: ... hell I might make them looser so you have to use sticky tape to put it on ... so it will definetely come off in a crash...
Cool.
Srinath.

[aplitz]

Srinath-

I fully understand that there is every reason that they should work.  But 'should' is not good enough.  NASA thought that the parachute on that probe 'should' open, but apparently every contingency was not tested.  You can't just throw it out there and think your engineering is better, especially since problems have ocurred in the past.  Prototypes are not OK for the general public, and not OK for the safety of a group of people I hope stays safe while participating in an already contolled-risk situation.

[aplitz]

I did a survey on two boards that I am a member of, including my local club, which is made up mostly of AFM racers and track junkies.  The general conclusion was that no one had seen a bar or clip on brake in a non-crash situation, (thus putting a nail in the coffin of your SM-type bars)unless the bike had been down before, thus compromising its structural integrity.  They also commented that welded aluminum clipons are a poor choice, as they brake more commonly.  So, your design is sound, you just need to prove their roadworthiness and not just send prototypes out to customers.

[The Buddha]

OK You seem to have 2 contradicting posts ... anyway These clip on's ... impossible to get it to break on the bike cos it wants to spin around or pop right off ... But I am using a 10 foot pole to try and lift or push it ... BTW I dropped the bike 3 times today attempting to load the handle bar ...
The SM type ones are now with a rod inserted and plug welded at all welds ... they aren't breaking on the bike either crash or no crash ... BTW Mercdude's telephone pole incident ... the bars came out un scathed ... so much so that he sold them to someone else ... The 2 bend and 2 weld bars are good after I welded the rod inside ... but yea its harder to control the failure in it ... These are limited by design to 1 type of failure ... spin and pop off ... BTW anyone want some battle tested clip on's that sorta fit a GS... No welding aluminum especially on a handlebar ... it will work harden with use and turn brittle ... 1 piece billet 6061 ... good stuff ... no compromises on these ... for case savers I bought steel that was $1.25 a lb, the bars DOM tubing $3.75 a lb ... and bloody hell 11 inches = 1 lb... I could have bought 2011 aluminum ... for under $1 a lb, the 6061 was around $3 a lb... each clip on uses over 2lbs ... most of which ends up on my machinist's floor  :x ... No wonder the aftermarket uses cast shaZam! ... anyway the failuse was in execution in the second batch of handlebars ... total of 12 and I broke 9 of it easily ... all the rest was fine ... Better design on those, the same good material, and better execution of the process ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[aplitz]

What is my contridiction?  If you are refering to the comment about welded bars I included that for info only, I understand that yours are clip-on, two piece.  If you mean the comment about no breaks in a non-crash situation.  I mean that no one reported a bar or clip-on that broke in a non-crash situation, unless the bike had been down before.  

The prior drop or crash probably fatigued the metal in a way as to cause failure in a non-crash situation (one coming down hard from a wheelie, the other in the bed of a truck during transportation tied down by the bars).  I really cannot believe that you really know what you are doing, I work with metal on a daily basis and would not consider myself experienced enough to take on such a project.  I can only hope that no unfortunate incidents ocurr this time around.

[Dom]

I made some bars today, some Suburban machinery knock offs.  4 welds, no bends.  Throw me waaay forward.  More fetal than any stock bike.  Might be vool for short runs but might wear and tear on the back and wrists after a few hours.

I made them out of whatever iron pipe they had at Home Deopt that was close to 7/8".  Ended up having to lay a few beads on the outside so everything wouldn't slip around.  As far as selling them and the quality of the welds, who knows???

I set them on a log and jumped up and down on the bars and they didn't bend.  :dunno: Very scientific, I know.... If someone wants to host a pic just tell me where to send it.  

[GRU]

clip-ons look good srinath...i don't think you'll have any problems with those
i made my own a while back and if these are not moving/breaking/whatever bad can happen, srinaths will not either