my rant about JCH's problem with his bike

[davipu]

hey I saw your post about your bike when you droped it off for new tires. which I don't know why anyone whould take a bike to a stealer to have tires put on, but that's another story. (all it takes is two 18 inch bar clamps, a 12 foot  ratchet strap and about a dollar at the gas station.) the guy is trying to rip you off, even if he is one of your drinking buddies, it is his job to take your money.  he is playing on the Idea that you know nothing of the workings of a motorcycle and that it is so different than a car or any other mechanical device with wheels that only he knows what is wrong with it and can fix it.  some simple points to remember:
   1 the gs500 has no lower end so you can't lose horsepower there, it only makes a significant number of ponies above 6000, hense the phrase "playing in the fun zone".  
   2 cold adjustment for idle is a bunch of hibbidy hoopla that dosen't mean a thing. if you have ever read the manual it says something to the effect of "while warming motor adjust choke to matain the RPM's between 2000 and 3000 rpms. when fully warm adjust idle to 1200 RPM.  (sidenote: when you fire it up in the morning warm and coming back from a hour ride in city traffic warm are two completely different things.  you will need to be constantly adjusting your idle as you ride to compensate for the heat of the bike.  that is why there is a knob there and not a slot for a screwdriver.  end sidenote)
   3 why is he out riding your bike for a hour? joy riding? running errands?  did you speficly instruct him that the problem that you were having took a hour to materalize? I can't think of any reason why a test ride should take more than ten minutes, other than the last one.  was I just misreading what you siad?
   4 a k&n filter vs a stock airbox, to break it down so everyone can understand.  take a piece of rope about 4 feet long tie it so tight agound your neck your head starts to turn purple and go run a marathon. that's what a stock airbox does.  if he as a mechanic doesn't understand what a high flow airfilter does then he needs to find a new line of employment.  but it was probably just a line of stealer bs to try to get you to buy new parts.
   5 as far as jetting, your messing with voodoo in a church man, only the Srinath knows the right combinations for your climate and season.  but if they are in there and it runs fine don't wory about what he siad.  
   6 you will pay for every mistake you ever make with your wallet.  by that I mean when you go to a dealer they are charging you $60+ a hour just to have your bike sit in their shop while you decide to use thier bathroom or wait till you are home.  come on man unless your time is so valuable that you can afford that there is nothing that you can't do yourself.  and if you can afford that go buy a 600rr or something. (sorry P a cheapshot)
   7 never ever do anything with your bike without cheaking here first, they have been making these scooters for 15 years you are not the first to have this problem. on that note even if you are riddaculed on here for asking a seemingly stupid question who cares? it's the internet people they can't see you crying like a little girl with hurt feelings.  
   8 (7 part 2) use the search function. if you can find the forum you can find the search button. how carb topics do we need? you only have 2 carbs people it isn't that hard.

and just rember folks you payed to read this, unless your one of those wierdos that goes to a public libary and waits for 2 hours to use the puter for 15 minutes, and even then you still indirectly payed for it. so i hope you learned something in this, and if you didn't, ha you wasted your time. although it was probably less time than i took to write it, and at least you realized that it was a waste of time so you learned that it was a waste of time to read and did learn something.

[JCH]

The tires (BT45s) were purchased, installed, and mounted for $240, not by a dealer, but by a performance shop that came highly recommended by pablo.  If I stated it was a dealer then my post was inaccurate, and I apologize.

This is my first bike, and being that I realize I am new, I am going to assume for the sake of argument that this post was meant to be informative, and not a personal onslaught on me.

I don't have the time, the tools, or the knowledge required to mount my own tires.   And to be honest, I'd rather have someone whos mounted thousands do it when its my life that is being suspended over two wheels.  We could theoretically look at it this way: in the short run it took me far less time to have him mount it... If I tried to do it myself it would have undoubtedly took a whole day, plus the tools, plus the hours of research to figure out what I was doing,  chalk it up to economic cost of leisure, I thought it was a fair deal.

It took him an hour to mount the tires and take it around the block, adjust the idle, clean and adjust the chain, and change the oil.  In total it was 315.  Did I get taken for the extra 65?  Maybe, but I don't think so.  He did things I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do myself.

I do appreciate your response regarding the airbox.   This is why I asked the question initially.  My concern was that even after riding 45 minutes to the shop (10 miles city driving down Pico Blvd in the heart of LA) the bike still stalled out at idle with the choke all the way off.   At least I know he checked the carbs out and saw that a rebuild wasnt necesarry.  He could have told me it was and I wouldn't have known the difference, giving that we just asked this question and a carb cleaning was the #1 suggested problem.

I was going to ask this question again in another thread but I don't feel it is now necessary.   I feel like I've learned a fair share through this one.  Now maybe if people search for a thread somewhat around this topic ( which I've done a fair number of times, I can assure you ) they might now have the answer.

The airbox stays.  The rejet may change.  Its all a a part of my learning process.  I don't know anyone who rides, I know me, and I know you guys online.

Thanks for the time it took to reply to my problem;  sorry if I wasn't as clear as I needed to be in my initial post.

[mrblink]

Ya, let's take it easy on the noobs.  I have been riding for over 3 years now, and I still don't know sh!te.  I like learning how to do my own stuff, but I still go to the dealer when it's either cost-prohibitive to buy the tools, or it's going to save me an entire weekend.  I'd much rather have the bike at the shop during the week, while I am sitting at work picking my arse, and riding on the weekend.  Oh, and the dealer (or performance shop) will balance the wheels too.  I'm fresh outta wheel balancing machines in my 1 car garage...

[Gisser]

The tires (BT45s) were purchased, installed, and mounted for $240, not by a dealer, but by a performance shop that came highly recommended by pablo.

The BT45s go for $150 a set at MAW [discount warehouse].  Add approx. $20 freight.  So, a set of tires is $170 and you do the labor.  Figure the shop charged maybe $20 per tire to mount and balance and that leaves $30 profit on the sale of the tires or 15 percent.  Most parts retailers like to make 30 percent so you done OK.

It took him an hour to mount the tires and take it around the block, adjust the idle, clean and adjust the chain, and change the oil. In total it was 315. Did I get taken for the extra 65? Maybe, but I don't think so. He did things I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do myself.

Shop rates are anywhere from $40-to-$60 an hour 'round here, but I can't tell whether you mean the whole job took an hour or if mounting the wheels and the rest took an additional hour.    

At any rate, they don't do this for a hobby.  It's no secret that motorcyclists are cheap bastards.  No one wants to work on them because you can't earn a decent living.  Round here, bike shops cater to snowmobiles and ATVs.  That's where the money is to be made.

[davipu]

well first off I'd like to apoligize if I sounded harsh, I did not mean this as a dirrect attack against you. only that from what you had written that it really sounded like you were getting screwed over, and as a noob being screwed over like that can really leave a bad taste in your mouth for motorcycling.  as for the tires it really only takes 2 hours, two 18" bar clamps, a 12 foot ratchet strap, and a dollar at the gas station.  wheel ballancing on a street gs? why? todays tires and wheels are made to such exacting standards that unless your racing or riding at triple didget speeds for extended periods of time there is no need.  as for having the peace of mind that comes with having someone experienced do it for you, ok cool dude, I just wish there was more suckers around here so I could make a few bucks off of them.    Just so you know whare I am coming from and don't feel like this is a bunch of crap to blow off; I've worked in the avaition industry for 5 years as a certified welder/ metalsmith. changing tires is nothing compared to repairing 40 million $ jets that a hour after your done are going to be carrying hot warheads pulling 5 g's. or patching bullet holes in a helo so it can go med evac more of your friends.   on my old monitor I had a note that siad "no drunk posts!" I have a tendacy to get worked up.   dave

[mrblink]

And I have a tendancy to run in the triple digits for extended periods.  

[JCH]

Thanks Dave, I know you were just trying to educate me, and I appreciate it.  

I don't have the luxury of having a garage. My bike is parked in a parking garage with 400 other vehicles so it makes working on it difficult.  I do want to learn to do it all on my own, I just wanted someone experienced to look at it and say "Yeah ok, the last guy who owned it didnt mess it up too badly."

The only thing left bothering me is the rejet;  are the mains / pilot too big?  I realize noone can really answer that because its variable, so hopefully in due time I'll learn on my own.

Thanks guys.

[davipu]

hey mr blink we are not talking about kph here.  

[pantablo]

Daveepuu.
easy on the new guy already. The shop charges $35/wheel if you bring the bike in and they remove the wheels. $240-$70=$170 (there's the $150 MAW tires with $20 shipping). $35 a wheel is on the cheap side in this town and I'm with JCM in that I'd rather spend my time doing other things than all afternoon doing a tire swap. 2 hrs? Not the first time, for a noob. Maybe after having changed many many tires but if you're not racing you'd only do that once or twice a year. Hell, even on my RR I'm managing 3 months on a set of tires (dont get me started on the cost of THAT). And peace of mind is a good thing.

That shop is a good shop. I'm glad they treated you right there.
And an oil change will run you $45 pretty much anywhere around here, If you did it yourself (I Have) you're still paying $27 for oil and filter (assuming you do it right and use motorcycle oil). $25 for cleaning and lubing chain as well...

Just because you might know how to do the work doesnt give you the right to come down on those that dont, or choose not to.

[rcepluch]

I agree that anyone with average skills can change and balance their MC tires because I just did my first one a couple of weeks ago.  However, it was a big job for me and very time consuming.

I spent many hours researching the internet and many hours making the tools I needed to do the job well.  I was very pleased with the results and I enjoyed the experience very much.  I look forward to my next tire change.  

Changing tires is definitely not for everybody though.  JCH, mrblink, and Gisser all had very good points.  I decided to change my own tire because I had my first  tire changed at the dealer and I was not happy with the results. It cost me $30.00 and they left some serious gouges in my rim.

If anyone wants to try changing their own tire the best document that I found on changing tires was located at: http://www.clarity.net/~adam/tire-changing.html .

I did not want to balance my tire as described in the above document.  I built a tire balancer as described in the following documents:
http://www.largiader.com/balancer/ ( see the items with the pink strings)and http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/balancer.html

This balancer worked  very well and it was fun doing the balancing.  I recommend balancing your tire.  The original tire from Suzuki had a 30 gram weight on the rim.  I would not want to ride on a tire that was out of balance that much!  My new tire only needed 4 grams to balance.

I am going to agree with the mechanic about not changing the air filter and also not messing with the carbs.  I have an '02 GS that is completely stock with 7500 miles and it runs great all of the time.  I read so many messages on this forum from people who are having problems with their bikes running poorly because of carbs, filters, and exhausts being altered.  At best you will probably only gain max. about 5 HP IF every thing goes well.  My advice to anyone with new or stock GS's that are running well is to leave them alone!

Good luck.


Bob

[mrblink]

Thanks for getting our backs, rcepluch.  I have a Yosh pipe and a drop in K&N.  I had the bike professionally jetted and Dyno-tuned about 3 years ago, because I didn't know anything about bike repair.  It cost me an ass-load of money, but the bike was significantly faster.  43.1 RWHP is about 20% over  the wussy stock ~36 HP.  I have personally had no problems with the bike until recently.  I guess it's to be expected, since I put on about 9,000 miles since the rejet.  Definitely not rejet related.  I think lots of people are having issues because they don't know what they are doing, which is the best way to learn I think (at least for me).  I do agree that there is less potential problems if you leave everything stock, but I just couldn't handle my bike sounding like a Braun shaver anymore!  

[rcepluch]

Hello mrblink,

Well, I'm an old guy, 51, and my philosophy is "if it ain't broke don't fix it".  Also, since I'm an old guy I don't mind my MC sounding like a Braun shaver   , and if I wanted more power I would just buy a larger bike.  Thats one benefit of being older, I have had time to save some money .

I can understand how guys want to fix up and work on their bikes.  As I said in my previous post I just recently changed and balanced a tire, and now I'm kind of depressed because that project is over.  I can't wait until I wear out another tire.  I'm working on another project now.  I'm in the planing stages for building a "Pressure Bleeder" for the brake system.

Good luck getting the carbs worked out.


Bob

[Blueknyt]

wow, 35$ a tire mount? my shop will mount em for nothing if you buy from them.  sookay, i mount em myself anyway.  heheh good skill, went to junk yard to get 2 tires for my truck, 10$ each, 25 if still on rim (you have to pay for rim), 15 if they dismount from the rim and put them on a rack for easy pickings.     well, i walked up toldem  i didnt need the rims that i would bring em back, they said Nope. so i walked out, grabed to Lug Irons walked back to cashier booth, proceded to cut the valve stems, walk around the beads till they broke, and pryed the tires off the rims right in front of him, took about 10 mins total  (yeah , way too much practice) he laughed and gave me both tires for 11.20$ total.    anyone here ever use the sidestand on thier GS to break a bead?

[davipu]

so are we all ready to give the pot another stir? :mrgreen:    :mrgreen:

[mrblink]

YEAH!!   :nana:

[The Buddha]

wow, 35$ a tire mount? my shop will mount em for nothing if you buy from them.  sookay, i mount em myself anyway.  heheh good skill, went to junk yard to get 2 tires for my truck, 10$ each, 25 if still on rim (you have to pay for rim), 15 if they dismount from the rim and put them on a rack for easy pickings.     well, i walked up toldem  i didnt need the rims that i would bring em back, they said Nope. so i walked out, gra<a target="_blank" href="http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=Bed">bed</a> to Lug Irons walked back to cashier booth, proceded to cut the valve stems, walk around the beads till they broke, and pryed the tires off the rims right in front of him, took about 10 mins total  (yeah , way too much practice) he laughed and gave me both tires for 11.20$ total.    anyone here ever use the sidestand on thier GS to break a bead?

Used a sidestand lying loose and a 2X4 and my truck tire while it was on the truck to break the bead ... I think I had a long steel rod ... not 2X4 ...
easy ... leverage is the key...
Cool.
Srinath.