Just picked up my GS500 project

[The Buddha]

Bad starter clutch ... be careful when you get that rotor magnet off ... easy to destroy it ... mine had to have a hole drilled in it and a S shaped metal rod shoved in it and hooked to foot eg before it will even come off ... then the sliding hammer I made had to be welded to it and as I slid the hammer it shattered the magnet ... but mine was already looking like it got hit by a freight train... You I believe sir are going to need a healthy slice of luck ... and I wish you get that luck ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[starwalt]

Just an update on progress - none! I have attempted to remove the primary bolt a few different ways. Of late I have been working on a rotor clamping tool that would work with a jack stand to firmly hold onto the flat sections of the rotor cone behind the bolt - no stress on the outside or magnets mounts.

Prototype 2 almost did the trick.

I am on prototype 3 and had to stop after I busted a tap in a piece. :x

A strap wrench didn't work. I did see a strap wrench I would consider but the horror stories of destroyed magnet from removal of the rotor makes me a little wary.  In the case of "goat's" it did not matter if more magnets were busted. In this case the rotor must come out clean to get to the starter clutch.

Gonna pick up a parts GS sans motor mainly for the wheels and electrical.

Where's that luck sri?

[Rema1000]

The Haynes manual recommends a "rotor holding strap or tool", or else put the bike in-gear with rear brake applied, or else a wrench on the flat parts at the center of the rotor (sounds like that's what your jig is supposed to do).

And the broken tap?... just weld the jig together .

[starwalt]

Yes oh how I wish I could weld. I plan to take a couple of courses at the local junior college just for this type of thing.  Half of my job is mechanical, the other half electronic/electrical. I can make circuit boards for my projects yet cannot melt two pieces of similar metals together. I plan to learn to do that before I die of natural causes.  :lol:

The mechanical attachment allows for adjustment. A 'Z' bend in a 22mm wrench would about do it. The only problem is weakening the wrench and if the wrench would be  hefty enough. That's why the tool. I'll post the final solution here.

[Kerry]

Keep at it!  I'm sure several of us will be interested in the solution you come up with.

[The Buddha]

Just an update on progress - none! I have attempted to remove the primary bolt a few different ways. Of late I have been working on a rotor clamping tool that would work with a jack stand to firmly hold onto the flat sections of the rotor cone behind the bolt - no stress on the outside or magnets mounts.

Prototype 2 almost did the trick.

I am on prototype 3 and had to stop after I busted a tap in a piece. :x

A strap wrench didn't work. I did see a strap wrench I would consider but the horror stories of destroyed magnet from removal of the rotor makes me a little wary.  In the case of "goat's" it did not matter if more magnets were busted. In this case the rotor must come out clean to get to the starter clutch.

Gonna pick up a parts GS sans motor mainly for the wheels and electrical.

Where's that luck sri?

OK if your starter clutch is stuck ... stick a penny between the drive gear and the idler and try it... but that rotor is no picnic ... now the screw up in my bike ... 3 months after fixing goats, my starter clutch clunked yesterday ... WTF ... I rode it the day before and it was fine, and I hadn't started it in 2 weeks, it clunked the next day after a ride ... if the damn thing clunks again I am opening it ...  :x
Cool.
Srinath.

[dgyver]

I have a mig welder in my shop and access to a shear, break, iron worker and other typical equipment at work if needed.

[starwalt]

Super D! I appreciate the offer. It would be a great excuse to get together and compare notes. For the last couple of hours I have been thinking about the CA guy's fuse popping problem.

Took apart the clutch handle assembly on the ebay bike and found another problem. The peg that moves the switch contacts for the clutch switch broke off. Tracing the wires back to the headlight bucket I found the two wires to the switch plugged into each other!

I also found the clutch cable ferrule broken off at the head end. It is a nickle-dime item but just another thing to replace.

I pulled the choke cable that wasn't working and dropped oil into the shaft to see if it will slide. We will see if that needs to be replaced also.

Shade tree mechanics could not have done a worse job of maintenance. This bike must have been someone's Buddha Loves You they beat daily.

Some people shouldn't have nice things.

[dgyver]

Took apart the clutch handle assembly on the ebay bike and found another problem. The peg that moves the switch contacts for the clutch switch broke off. Tracing the wires back to the headlight bucket I found the two wires to the switch plugged into each other!

Sounds like they just by-passed having to pull th eclutch in to start.

[starwalt]

Rotor bolt removal update - no joy in Mudville!

Rotor clamp prototype 3 was a wash (too big, wouldn't fit) so I revisited P2 modified. I managed to almost destroy P2 with no sign of bolt turning loose.

Reality Check time - this bolt does come out anti-clockwise doesn't it?  
In other words, does the rotor bolt have right hand threads?

If left hand, that would explain much.

To get some successful things done, I did electrical work and instrument cleanup.

[se7enty7]

Rotor bolt removal update - no joy in Mudville!

Rotor clamp prototype 3 was a wash (too big, wouldn't fit) so I revisited P2 modified. I managed to almost destroy P2 with no sign of bolt turning loose.

Reality Check time - this bolt does come out anti-clockwise doesn't it?  
In other words, does the rotor bolt have right hand threads?

If left hand, that would explain much.

To get some successful things done, I did electrical work and instrument cleanup.

are you talking about the bolt holds the magnet on?  just put the bike in gear; and hold onto the rear brake...l

[starwalt]

are you talking about the bolt holds the magnet on?  just put the bike in gear; and hold onto the rear brake...l

Yes and Yes it worked only in modified form.  

I used the "Broussard" method (found with a Search for 'bolt AND rotor' from 2003): Bike in gear, padded metal bar across swing arm to hold the wheel.  My 1/2 drive Craftsman ratchet and 19mm socket backed it out as pretty as you please.

Screw the magic tool concept. Let the machine do most of the work.
Thanks for the patience with a m/c newbie. :lol:


Now where is that gear puller?

[se7enty7]

are you talking about the bolt holds the magnet on?  just put the bike in gear; and hold onto the rear brake...l

Yes and Yes it worked only in modified form.  

I used the "Broussard" method (found with a Search for 'bolt AND rotor' from 2003): Bike in gear, padded metal bar across swing arm to hold the wheel.  My 1/2 drive Craftsman ratchet and 19mm socket backed it out as pretty as you please.

Screw the magic tool concept. Let the machine do most of the work.
Thanks for the patience with a m/c newbie. :lol:


Now where is that gear puller?

I had goats, and I have/found a gear puller that works perfectly.  A little too small, too big, or puller arms that are too long or too short and it won't work.


downside is that it destroys the (Expensive) magnet in the process... although it seems like the slide hammer method would destroy it too... so I dunno..

[The Buddha]

OK my magnet bolt didn't come off with the bike in gear, and bar across swingarm method... the clutch slipped  :x  ... I had to drill a hole in magnet and use an S shaped rod hooked to foot peg  :mrgreen: ... then the slide hammer ... had to be screwed in then welded on after it ate the threads :mrgreen: , then of course the rotor was already in a million pieces :x , so it rendered a million piece rotor into 2 million pieces  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

[Eklipse]

That vortex looks sweet! That starter motor looked fubared.

[starwalt]

Srinath, I found that luck you were wishing me.

I was shopping for a gear puller and saw the sign for the Cummins tool truck sale at a local motel. They have a mix of high and low quality stuff and I was looking for a fair quality gear puller to do the rotor removal deed. "Bo" gave me a little clipboard with the shopping list and a pen when I walked into the lobby of the motel. "Do you have a gear puller, 3 jaw?" I asked.  "Yeah, let me find it" he replied. I thought he should use a different hair color next time but that was only a personal observation. He finally found the puller but the price was over $40. The $10 sliding-hammer dent puller sitting next to the gear puller caught my eye.

"Would you say that the shaft on this is about 14 mm?" I asked. Bo's eyes glazed over and I then asked him if he had a metric caliper. "Yeah, let me find it" he replied again. I had previously spotted the digital caliper and found it to be inoperative - no batteries. My trusty slide cal was in the car. After discovering that his was dead, I told him I would be right back with mine. Bingo! 15mm diameter at the threads max.

After paying and picking up the item. I stopped by the industrial tool place to pick up the 14 x 1.5 die previously scouted out. Now home to the garage for the transformation.

[starwalt]

Take one cheap a$$ dent puller



Insert into a drill press and file the threads nearly off. 14mm diameter or slightly larger. (Posed shot - I did have my safety glasses on!)



Secure the shaft of the puller in your favorite vise and start threading a 14 x 1.5 die onto the shaft.



Make sure you use plenty of cutting oil and work the die back and forth slowly. No rush - you've got plenty of time.



After cleaning the shaft, assemble your new tool and screw it into the rotor that is on the bike.



I honestly only used a test bump to get a feel for the amount of stuck that the rotor had. It came right off!!! Honest!!



You would be happy too if your rotor came off this easy.



Now, on to the rotor clutch and find out what's up with it.

[Kerry]

Happy indeed!  Good job, Doug.  

And thanks for the photo journal!  

[starwalt]

When one obstacle is overcome it seems another pops up to take revenge for the previous one.

The starter gear is stuck on the starter clutch. Nothing will jiggle, slip, budge or move. It has been soaked in  WD40, tapped on with hammers, wedged with simultaneous screwdrivers, clamped into a vise and twisted with abandon, yet in spite of all that it does not move.  :x

I am considering two possibilities:
1) Drill out the clutch screws from the rotor magnet side to allow the clutch/starter gear to be removed from the rotor.
PRO - screws are cheap and easy to replace
CON - the screws are case hardend and will probably wreck several bits and just might take years to remove.

2) Drill out the starter gear on the back side sufficient to remove the clutch screws and thus free the assembly...
PRO - probably easier than drilling case hardend screws. may not affect the performance of the starter gear and it may need to be replaced anyway if damaged by the clutch rollers
CON - removes material from the starter gear

Looking over the posts via a search for rotor AND starter AND clutch didn't show much new and even found some with the opposite problem - clutch not holding.

OK Srinath, Starwalt's Disease is a fragged starter motor caused by a seized starter clutch.

Remedies are complete assembly replacement or surgery with transplants as needed.

I am leaning toward #2 above.

If Necessity is the Mother of Invention, Social Services should have placed Invention in a foster home long ago. Necessity is a child abuser.

[The Buddha]

OK thats one stuck ass mofo...
I would find the direction the gear will spin free ... and turn it that way ... now the gear is toast, the clutch is toast ... your only good part in that mess is the rotor and the thing that holds the starter clutch ...
I'd not touch the rotor no matter what ... I'll try to unscrew the starter clutch unit off the rotor ... I dont think the bolts are hardened ... They are good quality bolts but hey put left handed drill bits in the drill press and start drilling it in reverse ... and should have one back out in a few mins.
Cool.
Srinath.