WTF?? Bike's NOT popping fuses? Progress??

[John Bates]

I've been out of town for a day and a half. Looks like you're making progress.

The 89 wiring is a little different than other years.  The fuse is mounted separate from the starter relay.  But the ckt works the same.

If you disconnect the red and black-white wires from the R/R then that isolates the R/R and AC generator from everything else.

[starwalt]

Hmmm. The 07/89 chassis and the 10/89 chassis I have have the starter relay and fuse combined. Only three wires come out of the red connector/fuse cover as shown here:


Do you have a connector/fuse cover as shown above or a totally different set up as mentioned by Bates? You have said you have 4 wires, not 3 as shown. We may be getting our models mixed up.

When is a model considered 89 or 90? I would think it is the year it was made but... :dunno:   The Clymer manual shows 4 wires for 90 and up.

Let us know your manufacture date as on the VIN plate.  Could someone have added a second wire for an accessory?

[John Bates]

- Does everything electrical go through that single 20A fuse by the battery?

Looks like a good time to post this here.  As you can see, the fuse is between the battery and everything else (except the starter).  The battery can dump a lot of energy into the wiring and components real quick.  The fuse is just protection in case of a short to ground.

[mrblink]

Making some progress I think!!

Starwalt - my starter relay is definitely different.  The fuse is a separate assembly, located next to the battery.  

Ok, I'll just lay it out, step-by-step:

1) I had a Buddha Loves You of a time getting the black/white - red wire connector apart from the rectifier.  I instead disconnected the yellow - white/green - white/blue connector that appears to go from the rectifier to the alternator.

2) I plugged in a fuse, and it didn't pop.

3) I plugged the rectifier/alternator connector back in, and plugged in a fuse.  It didn't pop.

4) I re-connected all the wires to the starter relay, and plugged in the fuse, and it didn't pop.  Very strange, since it was popping before, with the ignition off.  At this point, who cares?  It's not popping!

5) So, basically, everything is connected again, so I started the bike, and let it run for a minute.  No problem so far.

6) I put it in gear, and let out the clutch a bit.  POP!!  Damn.

7) I unplugged the rectifier/alternator connector (yellow - white/green - white/blue), and plugged in a new fuse (getting low on fuses...)

8: I started the bike, and did the whole put it gear, let the cluch out thing.  NO MORE POPPING FUSES!!  Now, it's raining, so I couldn't take it around the complex, so I tried it a few more times, and it SEEMS to be working with that thing unplugged.  I am assuming that the battery is not charging in this state, so I didn't wanna run it too much,

So, does this mean that the alternator or the rectifier is toast?

[John Bates]

So, does this mean that the alternator or the rectifier is toast?

Maybe.  

Have you checked the battery voltage  while the engine is running at idle and while revved.

[mrblink]

no, but I will!  :mrgreen:

[mrblink]

Go Chargers!  I think halftime was created to go work on your bike.  Ok.  Here's what I got:

1) Plugged the rectifier->alternator connector back in, hooked up the volt meter, and started up the bike.  As the bike was warming up, it crept up to a stable 14.95-15.01 volts.  

2) When I revved it and held it at ~4,000 RPM, the voltage dropped to about 14.50.

3) For shits and giggles, I put it in first and let out the clutch.  POP!!

4) I put in yet another fuse, disconnected the rectifier->alternator connector, started it, let out the cluch several times, and NO POP.

I should also note the following: As I was letting out the clutch and giving it gas when the connector was plugged in, the headlight would dim a little bit for a couple tries before the fuse actually popped.  When the connector was unplugged, the light did not dim at all, and the fuse never popped.

-Jason

[John Bates]

How about in gear with clutch lever held in and just revving.  Does that blow a fuse?

[mrblink]

I have to say no, but I think is has done it a few times before.  It hasen't done it recently.  When I was testing it earlier, I was revving it quite a bit while it was in gear with the clutch lever in, and it didn't pop until I let the clutch out a couple times.

[The Buddha]

OK you might well have goats ... Se7enty7's bike was blowing fuses when he turns it off ... what can be stranger than that  ... GGGGGGGGG....OOOOOOOO.......AAAAAAAAA.........TTTTTTTTT.........SSSSSSSSS.......
Cool.
Srinath.

[mrblink]

I was afraid you might say that.  What is goat's exactly?  Doesn't it have something to do with the alternator??  I mean, that would make sense I suppose...

[The Buddha]

OK test for goats ...
Resistance from one leg or the alternator to coil to other ... 3 readings for the 3 coils... say they are A, B and C ... A-B, B-C, C-A ... write them down.... Then resistance to ground for all 3 ... A-Ground, B-ground, C to ground ... OK if any of these has a value other than Infinity to ground, and if one of the pair values is much lower than others or much higher than other or is open ... you most likely got goats ...
But Goats is not the only thing you might have ... you just have connectivity to ground somewhere ... like I posted earlier ... "you have a big ass short in it" ... Somewhere in the alternator/RR part ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[mrblink]

Srinath - OK, so keep in mind I am a HUGE electrical noob.  There are three alternator wires that connect to the rectifier (yellow, white/green, white/blue).  I am assuming that I can merely disconnect them at the rectifier, and take the readings from the connector by the rectifier (going toward the motor, of course).  If that's the case, I understand the A-B, B-C thing.  How do I test to ground?  I mean, what do I touch with the volt meter?  The negative battery terminal?

Also, the Clymer manual has some pretty cryptic info on testing the rectifier, but pretty much states that you need a special Suzuki tester in order to do it.  Is this true?

[John Bates]

............. As I was letting out the clutch and giving it gas when the connector was plugged in, the headlight would dim a little bit for a couple tries before the fuse actually popped.

So putting a load on the engine with the clutch causes a short in a stator winding, popping a fuse? :dunno:

[The Buddha]

OK Mrblink ... for ground touch the left side engine case bolts ... best ground there is ...
John Bates ... well its rather erratic when you have a short to ground ... it simply can cause a surge in the wiring somehow ... how else can you explain fuse popping when you shut it off ...
However to be honest I didn't totally follow the preceding 5 pages of this thread ... But rema1000's post caught my eye ... Probably the RR has the short to ground ... but check the alternator anyway ... atleast to eliminate goats ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[mrblink]

John - Yeah, I was thinking about the "load", more than the actual clutch circuit.  Looking at the diagram, I don't think the clutch switch / starter relay has anything to do with it, especially since I had the starter relay totally unplugged from everythng last night, during the "ignition off" frenzy.

Srinath - I went down to the garage a few minutes ago (it's a trek.  nowhere near my apartment...) to get my manual and test those three leads.  I was getting about 1.5 ohms between all the different combinations of leads to the stator.  It would fluctuate between 1.4 - 1.6, but mostly sat at 1.5.  I didn't have a chance to read your post yet, so I tested ground to the negative battery terminal, and got "infinity" on all three.  (When my volt meter isn't touching anything, it says "1".  I am assuming that's infinity)

-Jason

[The Buddha]

OK then ... RR is toast ... shorting to ground ... test its leads to ground ... one of them has a connection to ground I'll bet.
Cool.
Srinath.

[mrblink]

When you say "test its leads to ground", what am I looking for exactly?  Something other than infinity?

[The Buddha]

Some like that ... see the RR test isn't that easy ... its all logic driven ... might me switched and then short to ground and that switching occours only when running ... Best bet, try a known good RR ... or atleast one with a different issue ... like not charging ... that way it wont blow a fuse as you try to let out the clutch ... it wont charge the battery, but hey that's a different problem ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[mrblink]

Yeah, I was getting all sorts of strange readings off it.  Like all the yellow wires should read 6 ohms between them, but they read infinity.  I also got no reading between the red and black/white wires, which should read 40 ohms.  The book said to start the bike and let it warm up first, but my Yosh pipe is pretty loud, and I didn't wanna disturb the neighbors.  I also don't have the super secret Suzuki tester, as per the Clymer manual.  Oh, and there's always the fact that I have no flippin idea what I am doing!!   :mrgreen: