Why exactly do you believe in God?

[Anonymous]

I just have to ask.  Religion has been brought up in other threads and I'm curious.  Why exactly do you believe in a God?  Because you are told to?  Because it's the only possible answer to the mysteries of the universe?  Enlighten me...

[yamahonkawazuki]

a reply to some of the aforementioned posts. you cant prove to me that god did not exist, and i cant prove to you (scientifically) that he did. except through my faith.

let me give you a quote from a preacher.

" a puppy grows up to be a dog, a kitten grows up to be a cat, a human child. is basically the only being that has the opportunity to chose what type of person he/she becomes":

answer me this, why is it that basically all creatures, (except us), have "evolved", but theyve not evolved much. compared to us. no internet, cars roads, houses, the gs500 microwaves computers, etc etc, etc, etc.
why is it that nothing else has done so much, for their kind?

if i offended any of you, i do apologise Kissyface
_________________

[Cal Price]

Proof is not the issue, belief is. I happen to come from a country where less than 3% of the population attend Church but a huge majority say they believe in God or indeed Gods.

If anyone could prove, or indeed disprove, the existance of God, that proof in itself would destroy the basic building block of religion which is faith. If you knew there was no god... If you knew there was then you would be pitching up for Church/Temple/Chapel/Synagogue for all the wrong reasons.

I think it's something people find within themselves, some exercise the choice to believe in God, some to disbelieve, and some just don't know.
Why do they believe, I fall into one of the latter categories so I am not the person to answer. Although I can't believe I do admire faith in others and envy, just a little, the fortitude and comfort they gain from their beliefs. Having said that I tend to blame "established" religions for a lot of the problems in the world, it's the ones with God on their side who are dangerous. What agnostic ever started a war but that's another issue.

Lastly I am sure that it is perfectly possible to live to a decent moral code, be a happy and fulfilled person without a religion but to those who have "found God" good luck to them, like I said they probably found her inside themselves.

[roguegeek]

I don't believe in god in the way any organized religion believes in it. There's something out there and I can't explain what it is. That's all I know. I'm open to hearing what other people think and always respect their opinions, but I've never been presented with the answer.

[cernunos]

I loved Cal's response and I do not think I will try to add anything to it other than to say I do have faith in JC...and I love the GS500, this forum and all of you. :kiss:

C.......

[Ed_in_Az]

[starwalt]

Ah yes! Philosophy is not that far removed from Theology.

Cal's point of belief refocused the discussion from Rocker's question of belief "...in a God?" (which I might point out is interesting that it was capitalized and not lower case). The concept of belief needs more thought here.

I think we only act on those things we believe. If a person is in their right mind, they would not normally stick their hand into a flame. They believe it will be burned and cause subsequent pain and misery.   When we were young children, this is one of the first real actions, that had an immediate consequence, that we shifted from an idea to a belief.

The idea of a god or gods is part of human nature just as is the rejection of the same idea. To complete this line of thinking, the uncertainty of a god or gods rounds things out.

So to finish this post, I think we embrace the idea, reject the idea, or are uncertain about the idea because of how we are raised AND how that fits into our personal choices of how we live.

Yes, organized religion has caused much misery in the world. Clearly though, the agents of this misery have been men and their interpretation of what they think their god directs or desires.

Kant, Luther, Paine and legions of authors, teachers, and clergy for generations have wrestled with this. When I get old, (that's another topic in itself) I think my reply will be "I do not believe what I believe is any of your business."  

[Dom]

[Blueknyt]

yeah, he keeps changing his home number do to solicish callers.

No really, I was raised to belive in God and Jesus and commandments. while i was young i followed it for a time. as i grew i saw and expeirenced things that for one reason or another the "Book" could not answer clearly enough for me. found it hard to belive every bad was the makings of one being, and everything good was also of one being [10 year old thinking]

now, most Bad or evil things have Up sides somewhere and some goodthings had down sides and this really confused me and the answers i kept getting was GOD,Jesus,the Bible more to the point,  ALL answers Were in the Book.  A book of interpritations from many, written by many, and translated by many.  The phrase "Because the Book says so" soon told me that was the end of the line, that everyones answers came from the same book. and there was no way to prove or Disprove the sources.

i have my own belief. i try to be a good person,TRY to enjoy life. i take good with the bad though wish it was more evenly delt at times. i also figure that if i am wrong when im dead,it wont matter a whole lot.

now, as to others, your faith or lack of is one of the few things that is totaly up to you. Nothing can nor has the right to Force you to believe anything.  

a side note, it would be amusing to see Gods Footnotes for creating everything.

[Dom]

People like to feel "special".  A good example would be when sports players win something, like the Superbowl for instance, one thing that the players are most likely to say when encountered by the media is: "First of all, I would like to thank God."  I really believe that God had nothing to do with their winning.  Usually they win because they played better than the other team.  And what does that mean, that God favored the losing team less?  What the sports players really should say is: "Sorry, God just loves us more.  That's why we won."   :dunno:

[Michael]

OK, first let me apologize in advance if I say some things that give offence.  My intention is not to offend but to answer the question.
As a scientist I have been trained to critically analyse hypotheses on the basis of evidence.  There is no such thing as proof in science in the sense of "beyond all doubt".  A hypothesis is supported by the evidence and thus becomes more likely to be true, or is disproved by the evidence and thus shown to be false or at least inadequate and is discarded.  The more evidence there is to support a hypothesis, particularly if that evidence comes from several different sources, the more reliable it is.  Of course, as humans it is not possible for us to know everything there is to know about everything, so there will always be the possibility of new evidence debunking even an established theory.  It must be kept in mind however that facts/data/evidence do not operate in a vacuum, but are filtered through the basic assumptions of the researcher.  There is no such thing as totally free of bias.  It's a matter of what your bias is and whether your bias is supported by the available evidence.
My biases are these-  I believe the universe follows laws that are interpretable and predictable, which make the universe itself interpretable.  I would not expect chance to produce this situation, so I do not believe the universe arose by chance.  I believe the best available evidence from all fields of science support a recent sudden creation of the world and particularly the life on it, a recent sudden catastrophic destruction of the world's surface and its repopulation from somewhere in the Middle East.  As this correlates closely with the descriptions given in Genesis, and differs widely from all other belief systems, I am convinced that the Bible is divinely inspired and is true in what it does touch on.  It does not give us hard and fast rules for every situation, but gives our intelligence guiding principles to work out the right thing to do for situations where it is not explicit.  As for Christianity being an easy option, there are millions in the world today being persecuted and killed for being Christian who would disagree with you.  Understood properly, Christianity is not a belief system so much as a discipleship following the example of Jesus, who sacrificed EVERYTHING for those he loved.  It is contrary to our nature and only achievable by maintaining a relationship with him.  It is not achieved simply by trying to follow a set of rules, although the rules do help to define the relationship.  Sorry if this went on a bit but this is not a simple question.

[Gofer]

Just want to applaud what Michael and Yamahonkawazuki and Ed have stated and say that I'm extremely glad to see that Cernunos is back in force.  

[Dom]

Well, I beg to differ with you, Michael.  

IMHO, Jesus did not give up "everything".  Giving up everything means that you give up EVERYTHING....including the promise of an enjoyable afterlife, which he did not.  He basically cashed in his chips for a one-way ticket to the good place for the price of a good old fashioned crucifixion.

If I could change water into wine, heal the blind, among other fancy tricks,  I myself would have 100% faith that there was a supreme being and would feel more inclined to "walk into the valley of darkness", so to speak, a.k.a. "give up everything".  And while nobody should have to experience a Passion style beating, it had to happen because it had to happen.  If it hadn't then we wouldn't still be talking about Jesus 2000 years after his passing.

It's not like he lead a very normal life here on Earth.  What did he have to live for?  Wife?  kids? The betterment of all humanity?  He had to die to fulfill the scriptures.  How convenient.

[Daniely]

Well I want everyone to know, this comment isnt byassed, I have not ready any of the above posts before hand.

The way I look at it is this...

Everyone needs something to believe in, wether that be god, buddha, alla what have you. The belief (or faith) that a higher power exists, and has the power to punish or reward you at your time of passing weights greatly on those that believe. Think of a world where no one cared if they sinned. No one had anything to look forward to in the afterlife, and only lived for monetary value. That is certainly an earth I would not want to live on. Now, I will go ahead and say that I do believe in god, I do not attend church regularly, but I still believe. Its that belief that helps us (and me) get through very tough times. Like I said, everyone needs something to believe in, even if that something turns out to be false. Honestly, would you REALLY wanna be the one that made almost 85% question their faith, and in so may loose their morals? I for one woudl not want to spur that up.

Anyways, thats just my opinion on the whole thing. I REALLY hope this doesnt turn into a religous debate, and become tard fodder, that would suck as this thread has alot of possible intellectual comments.

And while we are quoting scripture, this has gotten me through ALOT of hard times, the deaths of friends, and the like:

Phillipians 4:13

"I can do everything through him who gives me strength"

Simply put:

"I can do all things through christ who strengthens me"

[Cal Price]

Yeah, congratulations people, we have kept out of the farm.

As most will have gathered, I am not a Christian but I am perfectly happy to believe there was a charismatic Nazerine wandering around and preaching 2000 years ago in the middle east. Just because "we" still talk about him proves nothing either way. We still talk about Ghengis Khan, Alfred the Great, Bodicea and loads of others, it simply means they left a mark of some kind.

The origional question was why do you believe in God and there is a temptation to turn this into an inter-religion-philosophy debate. I firmy believe that those who believe in god do so because they need to, this and what you are taught has a child gives most people a pre-disposition to be whatever they are, and believe whatever they believe. Not right, not wrong, just different. Perhaps only the agnostics can relate to that.

If all else fails, I can do an "Oscar Wilde" and do a deathbed conversion to Catholicism, as he said "Dying a catholic is acceptable, living as one is quite another matter"

[yamahonkawazuki]

dom i beg to differ with you, jc Did give up everything. everything of this world, was betrayed, by silas?, was arrested, basically railroaded into a death sentence, and was killed. if that is not everything, i do not know what is :dunno: if you read the bible, just humour me, try it, even if you are not a believer. god, jc, and the holy spirit are 1 and the same. i.e god the father, god the son (jc), and god the holy spirit. (after death)so in this life, he gave up his freedom and eventually his life, that in itself is everything. imo

[Cal Price]

Yama.... whilst I believe in tolerance, I cannot accept the Bible being used as a work of reference. It is the Jewish Old Testament followed by a lot of books written by a lot of people over a very wide timespan.

This does not make it untrue, nor indeed true. water into wine I believe, I have seen it done, English Rugby coaches have turned wine into water so why not?

I will concede that the Bible has some great stories and some truths but very few, even Christians, would say it was a caste-in-stone work of reference. Like another non-Christian, Ghandi, I often find myself quoting the Bible, like Ghandi, the sermon on the mount sounds a lot like reasonable common sense, I don't believe the loaves and fishes thing, they went for a day out and took packed lunches surely. "Render unto Ceasar" is often sound advice too. Good stories, good advice, a good self-help manual yes to all of those and lifestyle advice too but an encyclopedia it ain't.

Vernal Equinox soon, anyone for Stonehenge ?

[yamahonkawazuki]

ahhh, to each his/her own eh cal? :dunno:

[Anonymous]

Ah, a lot of good points here....

Christians, I'm wondering what you'd be believing if you were born somewhere else other than your "western" country.  Perhaps Islam?  Buddism?  I think those who believe will believe no matter what it is they're believing.

Cal, how true you are, you beat me to the punch.  The Old Testament is basically the Jewish Torah.  The New Testament is basically "books" written by a LOT of different people over a hundred or more years to support Jesus and the Christian religion.  Even in these days of video tape and newspapers we can't get/keep a story straight.  I'm sure there was a LOT of literary license going on back then.  There are many books that the church left out of the Bible because they "didn't like" them.  Most read the "King James" version.  You know what, your reading something that was edited and rewritten to suit these people.  You're not reading the original words or even the original meanings.  

Can I ask "where are the artifacts"?  I mean if God gave me his laws on a tablet I'd keep them somewhere safe.  There are NO true artifacts.  All kind of stories of goblets, radios to God, etc. but nothing to touch.

There are 5 major religions in the world.  Each believes the others are wackos and are outright wrong.  Why is this?

Ok, now why DON"T I believe in God?

It's like this...  Hope I can explain it.  Michael started out great with his scientific method thing and then blew it when he said he believed anyway.  Here goes.  People say that God created everything.  That the universe is just "too amazing to have just happened".  Right?  OK, then why DON"T you have a problem believing that a God just happened?  I'm talking orders of magnitude more amazing here.  A whole universe can't just happen but some guy who makes universes CAN just happen?  Whoa!  Thats just silly.  Thats like saying a can of Coke couldn't have just happened, that someone must have made it.  OK, I buy that.  But you then have no problem believing that the Coke botteling plant "just happened" and nobody else built the plant..  You see, where I'm coming from here?  If the universe didn't just happen and God DID do it, then God had to come from somewhere and then that something had to come from somewhere else, on and on.  You just make the story more complicated when you add a god to it because a god is a LOT harder to make than a universe and the life in it.

Tell me this, what happens if they find evidence of life on Mars?  Doesn't that throw out your religious beliefs that God made life here and here alone?

Here is another...  Why do you need to pray to God?  What, he's insecure in himself?  Why does he "need" to be worshiped?  Most all religions have worship in one form or another.  Don't do the "right" things and BAM, you're out.  How could "perfect" God allow the Devil?  Just something to do?  Bored with everything running smoothly?  Screwed by your right-hand-man, not very all knowing, all powerful to me.  Why isn't there a big thing that God made just to house the "rules" so we can be sure that we know what is expected to go to heaven?  Why do we have over 5,000 different religious sects each with their own ideas?  Why send your son to die for our sins?  What is THAT all about?  What is the point?  I don't get the reasoning.  Why worship the SON and not God?  So, we're just Gods ant farm?  Follow some arbitrary and caprecious rules and go to Heaven, don't do the right thing and off to Hell?  How about this, Christ is the only way to Heaven right?  What about all the people in tribes living in the jungles of Brazil or the islands of the Pacific who could NEVER know of Jesus?  Are they committed to Hell?  Or is it only those who have heard but don't believe?  So, 4/5ths of the world is doomed to Hell.

Do I KNOW the answers?  No.  Do I believe blindly in things without SOME kind of evidence?  Again, no.  This is what I think just as you believe what you believe.  Show me something, anything, without resorting to the old "you just have to believe, have faith" line and I'll rethink my position.

[Cal Price]

Each to their own sounds pretty good to me........... fascinating thread though.