What do you think about illegal immigrants?

[sinner]

Alpha, believe me, I'm not at all flustered by what Tad said. I have a thick skin, and I can take the ribbing that usually goes on here. Like I mentioned, I've been lurking on this board for a while now, and I've gotten used to the way Tad posts when he's feeling a little frisky. Actually, I find most of what he says informative. My reply to his post was just to rag on him and let him know that he has a live one here.

As to the food and such, I was thinking that such things could be arranged on a tiered structure. Kind of a reward system if you will. The prisoners come in and start out as, say, a "D Group" prisoner. D Group being at the bottom of the food chain. As a D Group prisoner, they live in dorms of about thirty prisoners or so, every couple of months they see a review board who will promote them to the next group level if they have pulled their weight and behaved themselves. With each group promotion they get, things improve a little for them. More privileges, slightly better food. If and when they make A Group, they get their own little single cell with its own toilet, wash basin, desk and chair, a communal TV room, maybe a pool room and really good food. Of course, they have to actually earn each promotion. Promotions won't be handed out just because they behaved themselves for a certain period of time. This will give them incentives and teach them the value of working hard and going by the book instead of breaking the rules and expecting everything to just be handed to them.

As to the International community and what they think, well, it's like this. No government will interfere with the domestic laws of another country as it pertains to the detention of illegal immigrants and those who break the "host country's" laws. When I lived in South Africa (About 28 years from age 6 onward. I'm Scottish by birth. Yes, I'll admit it, I've even worn a kilt on occasion), I had a number of friends/ acquaintances who worked in the judicial system as prison guards, police, public prosecutors (the equivalent here in the States is district attorney), and magistrates (no judges in South Africa, except in the supreme courts).

I also had a number of acquaintances (not friends, only and definitely acquataintances. one had to follow a certain protocol when dealing with consular staff. the class system, you know ) who worked in the British Consulate General in Pretoria. Naturally, I got to hear all the stoies about prisoners who were on the deportation roles for whatever crimes they had committed, etc. All of the people in the categories mentioned above, especially the Vice Consoles were of the opinion that if any person from the U.K. was to break the law abroad, they would then have to face the consequences of their actions and complete their sentences with no assistance from their governments with regards to sentence reduction, etc. Political prisoners, on the other hand, were an entirely different story.

I believe that my idea has merit and that the U.S. government could quite easily institute such a plan. God alone knows that they waste enough money elsewhere that they could use to impliment this. Hell, they could even turn it over to the private sector for implimentation and just supervise the whole thing.

I honestly don't see my proposal as being too far-fetched at all.

[Jake D]

I hear people all the time talking about "what this nation was founded on", blah, blah, blah.  Too few have any idea.  Don't you remember School House Rock?  America is the Great Melting Pot, or did you forget.  My father's great, great grandfather came here in 1871.  I suspect that unless you are native american that your forefathers did too. 
So what was this nation "founded on"?  Doesn't anyone remember the Alien and Sedition Acts?  They were a slap on the wrist compared to what some of you propose and the founding fathers of THIS country decided they were to strict and repealed them.  But, if you claim to know more than Thomas Jefferson, by all means. . . build your Wall. 

[Alphamazing]

I hear people all the time talking about "what this nation was founded on", blah, blah, blah.  Too few have any idea.  Don't you remember School House Rock?  America is the Great Melting Pot, or did you forget.  My father's great, great grandfather came here in 1871.  I suspect that unless you are native american that your forefathers did too. 
So what was this nation "founded on"?  Doesn't anyone remember the Alien and Sedition Acts?  They were a slap on the wrist compared to what some of you propose and the founding fathers of THIS country decided they were to strict and repealed them.  But, if you claim to know more than Thomas Jefferson, by all means. . . build your Wall. 

A summary for those that don't know about the Alien And Sedition Acts of 1798: http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/sedition/

Jake - those laws were aimed at preventing opposition to the government. sinner's idea is not nearly as strict as those are and is, I think, well within the confines of the law. These immigrants are here illegally, therefore they are breaking the law. Typically when someone breaks the law they are either fined or sent to prison. This isn't restricting freedom of press, as the Sedition Act did, nor is it changing the laws about how long one must reside in the US on green card status, as the Naturalization Act did. It is simply providing a creative (yet not unjust or cruel) punishment for those that have broken the law.

Most of the legal immigrants I know, talked to, and have worked with, are all very hard working people. However, just because someone hard working doesn't make him above the law in being granted legal residency in the US. 

[Yankee Punker]

 Were to start on this one?    They are here illegally, so from the start these are not the type of people who would be welcome in any Country. Americans are only welcome in Mexico for our money, sure they treat us very nice at all the big vacation spots because we bring the almighty dollar, can we move to Mexico and buy land, or get a job, or start a business, no way at all for the average American. What would happen to us if we crossed the border into Mexico illegally and started protesting in their major cities?    
 I know Mexico's F-ed up, and that's one of the reasons they want to come here, and I have no hatred toward anyone who's come's to America the right way. Heck we are the "melting pot" any one's welcome to try and get in. The great majority of our roots, and us  immigrated and came from some other Country, and not just from England, but we've all come to speak English and follow a system. Mexican Immigrants don't really want to do this, so now we broadcast TV channels with a second audio in Mexican, and there's a few strictly Mexican channels, and now in the area that I live they have there own Radio station, more and more items at store's are muti-labeled in both English and Mexican. What about my heritage?  I'm a Euro-mutt who's mostly Italian, where's my radio channel, where's my TV channel, where's my Italian Gatorade flavors, where are everyone else's. It's no wonder that so many people want to come here illegally, it seems now they have it better than all of us who were born here or the ones who worked very hard to be here and earned their right to call themselves an American, and its no wonder why a lot of us hate whats been going on for too long. And if you really believe that its OK to under pay these people for doing jobs that Americans supposably don't want to do, well things do balance out, or we find more intuitive ways, or you probably don't believe in things like equality, you know a little Liberty and Justice for all, something that a lot of Americans through out the years have fought for, I often think about how many people gave their lives for what I have today, including numerous family and friends I knew or never got to know, this Country was founded by people who wanted to better themselves, and believed in progress, sure sometimes we've gone the wrong way about doing things, but we've come a very long way in really a short amount of time since Christopher got lost on his way to India. I know we still have a ways to go, but I believe were on the right track, or why is it so many other Countries hate us, they will "burn" our flag, but they sure as hell won't "burn" our money. Should we be sorry for all of those in other Countries who are afraid to fight for what they believe like we have, should we be sorry for those who don't want to work hard to better themselves like we have? I'm sorry for us, we'll keep wiping a lot of other Countries Butt's, and let our own get stinky. Oh yeah what about the increase in crimes committed by illegals, theft, rapes, and murders from people who should not even be here, so it makes it even harder to track them down. And what about things like this, there's a rental house just a few doors down from mine that I swear as about twenty Hispanic people living in a three bedroom home, its great that the property value for my home here near the beach as gone up almost 4x from what the purchase price was way back in 1992(165k), and I've spent a lot of time and $ this summer landscaping and painting for a nice curb appeal, and now three door's down looks like a used car lot, a outdoor laundry mat, and a garbage dump all in one.    

I hope this doesnt come out all crazy, I just finished my 55 hour work week, and a bottle of Rum.  God bless America! And spell check.

[sinner]

Jake, what Alpha says is the truth of it. Ditto for Yankee. This and any other country has laws for a reason. Immigration laws are no different from any other law. The law is the law. Period! You, yourself, know this to be true.

I myself have lived, legally, in no less than four different countries, America being the fourth. I came here legally with no intentions of staying. I met a wonderful woman who is an American citizen. We decided to get married. I applied for a green card back in November of '99. I went through all the red tape. Hell, I'm still going through all the red tape almost seven years down the line.

I am no different, no better and no worse than any other person on this planet. One thing I do subscribe to is following the law. To the letter if at all possible. After almost seven long years of dealing with the U.S.C.I.S., after almost seven years of uncertainty and frustration with them and the entire immigration law of this country. after paying immigration attorneys thousands of dollars to assist me with my application for permanent residence in this country, that view has not changed.

Do I really want to live in the U.S.? No, not particularly. To me, it is just another country. There is nothing very special about it. There is nothing here that I cannot find in the U.K., of which I am a native. So, why do I stay? Why do I put up with the incompetence of the U.S.C.I.S. staff? Simply because my wife is a U.S. citizen, born and bred. All of her family is here. I love her dearly and would lay down my life for her without hesitation.

I came here from the U.K. I walked away from an established life there. I gave up my fully furnished apartment, my job, which I might add was a good one and I was in line for a promotion just before I made the decision to emmigrate to the U.S. I walked away from my close contact with my own family and friends there, and I did so at a not inconsiderable financial cost to myself.

Not everybody is in my exact situation. This goes with out saying. Not everybody is as fortunate as I am. I do not begrudge any person the opportunity to improve their lot in life by emmigrating to another country, especially one as culturally rich and diverse as the United States of America. Especially not a country as rich in opportunity as the United States of America. What I do expect from each and every person who wants to make the trip, who wants to improve their circumstances and the circumstances of their family, is to do it the right way. Obey the laws of the land. Do not break those laws, and by doing so, disadvantage other people who are equally as willing as they are to work hard to improve their lives. This country was built on immigrants. This country would not be what it is without them. Nobody is striving to stop immigration at all. People are only trying to stop illegal immigration.

This is an unrealistic expectation. I realize that, but right is right, and wrong doers of any and all stripes should be made to face the full penalties that the law provides for.

I'll climb down from my soap box now.