New Rings. . .

[Jake D]

I got some really bad news about my bike this weekend.

Without making myself too sick with the thought, I am facing the need for new piston rings.

Has anybody had this done?  If so, what was the total cost?

Has anybody done it themselves?  If so, is it doable?

[VTNewb]

You shouldn't have any trouble doing it yourself with a repair manual.

Not to mention rings are cheap as hell.

[Jake D]

You wouldn't believe the quote the guy game me at first.  

I think with parts are labor, that maybe $500 is fair. . .

But not more.

I was thinking I could pull it off myself with some help.

[dgyver]

Ring sets: $25 x 2
Head gasket: $20
Base gasket: $5
Honing cylinder: $20-40

Since it is your first time it may take about 4 hours, excluding time for someone to hone the cylinders.

[Jake D]

The mechanic estimated 8 hours of labor (at only $50/).  

He should be able to do it much faster than that.

Thanks for the info.  If he doesn't get real on that quote, I'll just have my dad help me do it. . .

[Rashad]

i did this as an afterthought to splitting my cases and rebuilding the whole motor. Its easy. Just do it.

[cernunos]

Oh, so sorry, but I just gotta respond to this. "I don't want to pay you shaZam! for doing a re-ring job on my bike, but I do want it to last a long time." Just one of the reasons I finally closed our shop about 3 years ago. You get what you pay for...hopefully. And 50$/hr., remember man, the guy is not making 50 per. Overhead in a good shop is really high. If you don't want to pay somebody to do it, do it yourself so that the mech can do a good job for somebody else and not have to go on food-stamps to survive. I love the Baby GS500 bike and this great forum.

C......

[Jake D]

Thanks for the flame.  

Do you know that his first quote he gave me was around a $1000 to re-ring the engine?  My bike might be worth a $1000.  

Did you know that I am doing some free legal work for these guys?

And I'd rather overpay them and have a shop I can go to that is cheap, friendly and reliable than have them go out of business.  

I asked about it b/c $1000 is high (you better agree) and I am thinking of doing it myself because I think it would give me and my dad some much needed bonding time.

But I appreciate your $.02.

[Rashad]

Dude, i hear your pain and i sell cars and experience the same phenomenon. People dont wanna pay, but they want want want...

Problem here is, he doesnt need to pay 500 bucks when he can pay for rings and gaskets and do it himself. Its easy.

[cernunos]

Jake, didn't mean to come off as "flaming". Also, I still wouldn't want someone tearing into my motor and re-ringing it in four hours. I mean, it's not like "Monster Garage" and we're going to see who can do it quickest is it? And as far as what is reasonable, I'd think it really depends on the region you live in. What's worth 1k to me might be worth .5k somewhere else. Although 1k does seem a bit steep in this instance. But, then again, consider; the mech has to tear into it, disassemble the pistons from the rods (if you're going to check the pins and the small-end and the piston-pin bores) clean the pistons real well, check side-clearance, back clearance and end-clearance on the rings, check piston to wall clearance, hone the cylinders and re-check piston-wall clearance, clean all the other stuff, check the head for warpage, check valve seating, notify you if there are any problems, take back parts that were wrong or damaged, re-notify you if any other work is needed...eventually get the thing back as good as can be and be able to re-assure you that it will last for a reasonable period of time. I'm not flaming, I'm just saying that I would probably spend at least 8 hours on a job such as that. 'Course, he could just tear it apart, slap a set of rings in, hone the cylinders, slap it back together, take your money and tell you you're good to go. Soooo, if you're mechanically inclined, just go ahead and do it, but if you pay somebody to do it cheap, well, there's a reason lawyers charge, doctors charge, and good engineers make good bucks. Not flamin' just sayin'. I love the Baby GS and the forum.

C.......

[Jake D]

That's cool man.  It is hard to understand the tenor of a message when you're just reading something someone wrote.  

To be frank with you, I will probably pay them to do it.  I like these guys and they are the first bike mechanics that haven't treated me like I was some sort of mung off a bathroom floor because I want to ride a motorcycle that I don't have to make payments on.

[Rashad]

Hey just a heads up...

I have a ten page thread on here  called Rashad's saga or something.

Riding motorcycles brings poeple together.. but working on them does that too!!!

Rings on the gs are simple. You dont need to go crazy with it. You dont need to check all of that stuff mentioned above. This bike is very simple and as long as your rings arent ancient, the cylinder should be in good shape.

Buy the rings. Buy some beer. Get the needed gaskets. The valve cover gasket is reusable.

Get your dad in there to sit and work with you for a bit. Put on some tunes and go to town.

Get a clymer manual.

Take off the gas tank.

Take off the valve cover.

Do a search and learn the tricks of getting the gs cams back in time.. its easy once you do it right. ALSO when putting it back together, hand turn it slowly to ensure the timing is ok. Dont ask me how i know this...

Take off the head, and cylinder. Pull off the pistons (very simple, couple clips)

Replace rings, repeat.

Put stuff back together. Try not to have anything leftover. If there is anything, rinse and repeat.

INSTANT BONDAGE> and INSTANT POWER! VROOOOOOOOOOM BABY>>>>>>>  

[Jake D]

Thanks Rashad.  Big ups.

[scratch]

If you get into trouble you can always take it to the shop, just let them know what you did and keep everything organized (boxes, cardboard cutouts of engine cases with all the bolts in them.).

[Blueknyt]

I still wouldn't want someone tearing into my motor and re-ringing it in four hours

depends on how fluent they are in their job and how well they retain specs, and HOW screwed up the engine is.  Are you talking a TOP END REBUILD? or just tossing in a set of rings? Not all heads warp, Not all valves need to be redone,   How was the issue diagnosed? was this comfirmed by another shop known for good work and fair pricing?

ive seen rings just give up, but everything else was well within spec. didnt take long to reset the crosshatch in the barrels and fit new rings having the engine running in 3 hours.  3 years running now and its still puring along.  Rebuilt the lower end of my GS when CB shaft bearings went only took about 2 hours or so to pull engine, teardown, find issue, clean up, fit replacement bearings and CB shaft, torque everything down, mount back in frame.  the bearings were used but within spec.  even had to cut my own gaskets.

[The Buddha]

Shops overcharge ... like a lot ... and they over guess the time ... by a lot ...
Truth is ... a set of carbs if they are clean ... I can rejet in under 20 mins ...  taking time and paying attention to everything ... Stuck screws and other sheite notwithstanding. Shops charge 3 hours ... Of course yanking carbs off the bike and refitting ... 10 mins out and 15 in ... on the high side.
Valve adjustment ... 30 mins or so, maybe less ... I also sorta do my time calculation differently than shops maybe ... I first drain the tank ... So if that takes 2 mins of me fiddling and 10-15 mins for gravity (I drain through the carbs - good way to take the crap out of bottom of float bowls) i count it as 2 mins ... not 15 ... If they say 8hrs ... you'll do it in 1/4 the time IMHO.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Jake D]

Actually what they are wanting to do is take two hours to take the engine out, two hours to tear it down, have the cylinders honed/deglazed, check the valves, etc., have the head milled, pull the pistons off and re-ring them, two hours to re-assemble, two hours to re-install.  If they can do it quicker, they'll come down on their labor.   But that is the most they figure it would take.  

Or they offered to order all the parts I'll likely need and set me up with the machine shop so I can do it myself.

[Blueknyt]

again, unless you have severely overheated the engine, its not likely to have a warped head.

before i rip things apart condemning rings, ill make a few tests, compression test, dry, then wet (adding few squirts of oil) a big diff in readings would show bad rings, then i pull the cams to make sure the valves are 100% closed and put about 90psi of compressed air to the cyl and check to see how well the valves are sealing. unless they are freshly lapped in they will leak a little, and i mean a little. but if you can feel air coming out of an intake or exhaust port then the valves should be pulled and looked at to make sure they're not burnt or bent.

unless the seat is hammered or the valve is collapsed a simple lapping will bring it back with no issues, this will require somone with the Right spring compressor to remove. you can save alot on this by taking a machine shop the head and have them pull the valves for you. wouldnt take long and charges would be way less.

Look the pistons over, and the bores. pull the rings from the pistons, drop them in their holes and see how sloppy they fit using feeler gauge as discribed in book. if not too bad, give the bore a quick hone out and put new rings on, install pistons, gaskets, put the head back on, put the cams in and go.

its a personal choice thing, is this your daily transpo? cant be without it for any length of time? grab another engine drop it in and rebuild this one nice and slow.

[94suzuki500]

I did it on a 4 cylinder honda awhile back, maybe 4 months ago.  $ cycinders is way harder than a twin 360 crank.  Just get a manual and go for it.  Good luck.  By the way Im 17

[Jake D]

Update.  

So, I'm doing this (re-ring) myself.  

I got the cylinders off the bike.  The rings on the left were burned up totally.  Left spark plug fouling constantly mystery?  Solved.  

No problem.  Except, the piston is screwed and has been slapping away at the cyclinder.  Cylinder 1, piston 0.   Need new piston.  No problem.  Except that the wrist pin/bearing on that side also screwed.  Nearly frozen up.  We can move it with a hammer, but it takes some effort.  So, you guessed it: I get to split the cases!  I'll need to to get the rod out so I can put a new rod on there (assuming the rod is screwed too, along with the bearing).  

This sucks.  Any good advice?