Gearing down or braking. Which is better?

[gerharddvs]

[Lee from Toronto]

Best thing to do would be to utilize a rev-matching downshift and brake at the same time. This way you are using engine compression to slow down, and not your clutch pad. How to rev-match:

- clutch in
- give the throttle a blip to bring your revs up
- downshift at the same time
- clutch fully out, and hopefully you will have matched revs in the lower gear so the gear engages without excessive jerkiness

Then apply your brakes while using the natural tendency for the high revving lower gear to slow down at the same time.

[scratch]

Best thing to do would be to utilize a rev-matching downshift and brake at the same time. This way you are using engine compression to slow down, and not your clutch pad. How to rev-match:

- clutch in
- give the throttle a blip to bring your revs up
- downshift at the same time
- clutch fully out, and hopefully you will have matched revs in the lower gear so the gear engages without excessive jerkiness

Then apply your brakes while using the natural tendency for the high revving lower gear to slow down at the same time.

I apply brake before I let the clutch out when downshifting. Typically, I match rpm's to 4000rpm, which is usually when I down shift (at 4000rpm).

[JeffD]

I've been engine braking for 2.5 years now, and I've put 24,000 miles on my bike that way (its now at 34,000 miles) and I've gone through 2 chains, and a front and back set of pads.  So you'll be ok, just do what your comfortable with.

[dgyver]

Engine braking is a bad habit to get into.

[The Buddha]

Engine braking is a bad habit to get into.

Yea especially if you buy a 2 stroke later ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[John Bates]

I prefer to use brake pads rather than drive train for rear wheel braking.  I think I can control it better and with more sensitivity as to what is happening back there..

[Dom]

I use engine braking when I need to stop quickly...to me it feels like I can stop quicker and more solidly than when I use my brakes.

[ericjmense]

Which do u think is cheeper to replace, brake pads or motor parts.  

now which do u think u should use to stop.

[Rashad]

Which do u think is cheeper to replace, brake pads or motor parts.  

now which do u think u should use to stop.

Are you mechanically inclined?

I don't know your knowledge of bikes and such, but i wouldnt post like that unless youve at least taken apart a gs after 14000 hard miles and it still has a good clutch.

Downshifting is fine, and there is no adverse affects if done properly.

Clutch would be affected SLIGHTLY..and even so, a clutch costs as much as front and rear brakes(combined) and its easy as pie to replace.

[dgyver]

If you ever own/ride a bigger displacement bike than the GS you will find out the hard way why engine braking is a bad habit. If you ever ride aggressively all you will end up doing is locking up the rear wheel and having it fish tail. Sometime is fun to do but a little spooky the first few times. Also, it will upset the geometry of the suspension when going into a turn. There is a reason slipper clutches are a lot of the bigger bikes, especially the v-twins. Controlling speed via the brakes is the best way to slow down.

[coll0412]

SO what you are guys are saying is for control as well as stability using engine braking is a bad Idea.

While physical abuse to the bike is pretty minimal, i mean if you use engine braking it is the same as taking off from a stop light, its just "reverse wear"
the chain will express a tensile force, and the clutch will  have to be enganged and disengaged, so basically you are putting double duty on both those parts, both for acceleration and deceeleration.

Wow, I am pretty stupid to have been using engine braking, didn't really think about it.

[Rashad]

Umm.. maybe on the bigger 100+ hp bikes...but thats for reasons you just discussed that dont apply to the gs dgyver..

Downshifting is a normal part of riding a motorcycle or driving a standard car. How much thought went into this topic? Yikes.

Just do it. Or Dont. But five different opinions from a forum will just confuse you on it.

[dgyver]

There is a difference in down shifting and engine braking. I said it is a bad habit to get into. Maybe for some that never outgrow the GS, this will not be a problem. But as the GS is a learning platform for most with bigger bikes in the future, engine braking now will only create problems in the future.

[John Bates]

According to the MSF Basic Rider Course Handbook:

Under the heading "Stopping":

"Both brakes should be applied at the same time when stopping.  Even though the full braking potential of each wheel may not be required for normal, planned stops, it is important to develop the habit of using both brakes so that your reflexes will be ready to respond quickly and properly when an emergency situation occurs."

There is no mention of using engine braking to perform this.


Under the heading "Shifting'"

"You must change gears to match engine speed with road speed."
This section goes on to explain how to upshift and downshift.
At the bottom of the section it explains: "Shifting to a lower gear causes an effect similar to using the brakes.  This is known as engine braking.  To use engine braking, shift down............."

This section does not explain when engine breaking should or should not be used.

Maybe the Advanced Rider Course will cover use of engine braking.
I'll find out this May when I take it.  

[mastrind]

I think it's important to differentiate between engine-braking and downshift braking......here's why....

Engine Braking - using the natural force of the engine to slow down the vehicle,  staying in the same gear as one decelerates

Downshift-Braking[/u] - similar effect using the braking force of the engine, but the operator attempts to downshift, matching engine speeds (rear wheel speed) to road speed

I think engine braking is appropriate when approaching a stop-light or stop sign (or other places where  the bike will come to a complete stop)

I think downshift braking is better for slowwing down in an effort to allow more time for a situation ahead of the rider to develop.....situations like pacing a light to turn green, various merges or lane changes (like construction areas), etc...this is probably more common for slowing down, not necessarily stopping.....


the braking method that I think is absolute LEAST SAFE is when a rider engages the clutch and then brakes....at that point the rider has ZERO control of the rear wheel and engine.....

...JMO....

[addison]

I just finished this book, which I think is excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1893618072/qid=1110503715/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-7240677-1678302

The author mentions using the front brake at the same time as downshifting while blipping your engine to match revs before entering corners to enhance stability, etc of your bike.

Anyhow, if you go by this book, downshifting to help slow the bike down is a good technic.

Since reading this I have been practicing and as some pointed out it can be dangerous if you don't match engine speed, however, when I do it correct the bike is as stable as can be. I expect practice will make perfect...

[mp183]

I use engine braking all the time in conjunction with both brakes.
This give you maximum control and stopping power.
In the rain I use the engine braking as much as possible.  It's better than using the brakes.  
Besides if you just use the brakes it sort of takes half the fun away from riding the bikes.  
I did the same with my cars that had standard transimissions.
Never had any problems with the gear boxes of clutches.

[stefman722]

When i took the Motorcycle training course which is mandatory in Manitoba to get your motorcycle licence, they said when coming to a stop light to always downshift/engine break when coming to a stop because you never know if your going to need power to get out of a bad situation. I always downshift/engine break with my F model. But you do gotta learn how to do it properly.

[Rashad]

Nothing is sexier than a few perfectly timed downshifts to a girl walking by.