Gearing down or braking. Which is better?

[gsJack]

I use all three brakes all the time, front, rear, and engine; mostly, but not always, all three together.   The bike should be in a gear that will permit some acceleration all the time with the clutch engaged all the time till you come to a stop. Down shift as you slow, don't wait till almost stopped and downshift all at once.

When riding at a normal pace, I tend to brake before the corner MSF style and accelerate thru the turn.  When pushing hard, I tend to trail brake into corners using all three brakes.  I do a lot of braking in the corners using the rear brake only to trim speed, especially in the blind corners that I tend to enter too fast.   :lol:  A little rear brake in corners tends to settle the bike much the same as accelerating in corners does.

Shifting quickly should be done all the time, keeps the bike in gear all the time.  Close and open your left hand as fast as you can.  That's how fast you should be shifting and working the throttle while shifting.  All comes naturally as the miles rack up.  

I'm not riding a 100 HP sportbike or a big twin cruiser, I'm riding a GS500.  If I start riding something else, much of this will be adjusted accordingly.  I recall my braking patterns changed significally when I changed from bias ply to radial tires about 3 years ago.  I've got about 100k miles on my GS500s now, about half on bias and half on radial tires.

Before the GS500s, I put about 225k miles on 4 Hondas including a CB650SC and a CB750K and all had rather average rear drum brakes.  I remember riding those bikes using mostly the front brakes and not much rear.  I can ride my GS500s much quicker than I rode those Hondas.  Don't worry about future bikes, ride the bike you're on today and learn to ride it as well as you can.  I have slowed down a bit though in the past year or so since I'm now a couple years into my 8th decade.

[Rashad]

Jack is the man

[Blueknyt]

If you ever ride aggressively all you will end up doing is locking up the rear wheel and having it fish tail

ok large displacement twins act diff then 4cyl of same cc's, engine braking on each is very different. try push starting the gs500, then push my xj650, the 650 is easier to start, its also much smoother on engine braking and doesnt "brake" as hard as the gs500. ive ridden a few large cc bikes and its just a matter of getting used to it, and when to do it, how hard to do it.  surfaces and tires also add to the equation.  the idea of ANY braking is to be smooth with it, matching revs on downshift and allowing the engine to help slow you down IS NOT BAD NOR DANGEROUS if done with some reasonable judgment and smoothness.   cruising along at 50mph heading for 30mph turn, dropping 3 gears and dumping clutch without matching revs to make it smooth will cause the rear wheel to LURCH (not lockup) this results in a skid even though the wheel is still turning. this can cause the Fishtail or slide out of rear wheel.  the key thing with riding bikes be it street or racetrack is smoothness of operation.

[nathanael]

Any car that I've ever had I've always used both engine braking and regular braking. I've always felt more in control of the vehicle when using this method, plus I feel it leads to faster stopping times when done correctly. This is the number one reason that I hate automatics, in fact they scare the crap out of me. I used to be a delivery driver and drove around a fully loaded automatic cargo van every day. I got very used to driving that thing but always felt that big/heavy truck and automatic transmission was a recipe for disaster. I've used engine braking since day one of owning my bike, with nary a problem. Now, if you're not smooth and are dumping the clutch at 10,000 RPM while downshifting I can forsee a problem. Otherwise, it's no problem at all. My own view is that it's actually safer and a good technique to use. The one danger is if you engine brake without regular braking as well, because the moronic cages behind you might not realize you're slowing down and run into you. I know people will disagree with me but I stand by my opinion.

By the way, my car has 210,000 miles on the ORIGINAL clutch and transmission. Both still work just fine and dandy too. The argument that you will destroy your transmission or clutch seems bogus to me. Does engine braking put a slight more amount of stress on the engine/clutch/transmission? Probably, but if done right it's negligable and isn't something to worry about.  Just do what you're comfortable with and don't worry about the damage to your bike.

nathanael

[mp183]

Amen!

No, no it's not a religious reference don't take me away. :lol:

I use all three brakes all the time, front, rear, and engine; mostly, but not always, all three together.   The bike should be in a gear that will permit some acceleration all the time with the clutch engaged all the time till you come to a stop. Down shift as you slow, don't wait till almost stopped and downshift all at once.

When riding at a normal pace, I tend to brake before the corner MSF style and accelerate thru the turn.  When pushing hard, I tend to trail brake into corners using all three brakes.  I do a lot of braking in the corners using the rear brake only to trim speed, especially in the blind corners that I tend to enter too fast.   :lol:  A little rear brake in corners tends to settle the bike much the same as accelerating in corners does.

Shifting quickly should be done all the time, keeps the bike in gear all the time.  Close and open your left hand as fast as you can.  That's how fast you should be shifting and working the throttle while shifting.  All comes naturally as the miles rack up.  

I'm not riding a 100 HP sportbike or a big twin cruiser, I'm riding a GS500.  If I start riding something else, much of this will be adjusted accordingly.  I recall my braking patterns changed significally when I changed from bias ply to radial tires about 3 years ago.  I've got about 100k miles on my GS500s now, about half on bias and half on radial tires.

Before the GS500s, I put about 225k miles on 4 Hondas including a CB650SC and a CB750K and all had rather average rear drum brakes.  I remember riding those bikes using mostly the front brakes and not much rear.  I can ride my GS500s much quicker than I rode those Hondas.  Don't worry about future bikes, ride the bike you're on today and learn to ride it as well as you can.  I have slowed down a bit though in the past year or so since I'm now a couple years into my 8th decade.

[Anonymous]

I'll have to agree with engine braking.  I mean you do it all the time.  Every time you let off the throttle it begins braking.  Doesn't everybody anticipate a stop and begin to slow (engine brake) before applying the brakes?  And don't we all downshift while we're stopping if only to make it MUCH easier to find neutral?  Just don't get extreme with it and have it skid or beat on the clutch with too much slippage.  Because (in cars anyway) brakes are a lot cheaper than clutches.  Didn't someone say that our bike clutches are cheap and easy to replace?

[Rashad]

I wont apologize for saying AMEN

Yes, the clutches are relatively cheap and very easy to swap. Takes maybe an hour at most. Its kinda fun actually :dunno:

[Mountaineer]

After 26 years on a GS400, and one year on the 500, I usually leave the bike in gear, clutch engaged, and use the brakes on both wheels. Gear-shifting happens if I need a lower gear after I've finished slowing down. When I get close to stopping or need to accelerate, then I shift to the gear I need or shift on down to neutral keeping the clutch disengaged until I need it or I'm in neutral. This way, the brakes are controlling the stopping, and the engine, clutch, clutch cable, and transmission are all resting peacefully until they're needed.  

Going downhill is a little different. Sometimes I shift to a lower gear and let the engine help the brakes, if it's real curvy. The steeper the hill, the more you might need some engine help-but that's a judgement call. If things get loose as in gravel or dirt, pretend you're riding on ice. Don't do anything that would disrupt the balance between front and rear wheel grip.

[crash]

my choice usually depends on what situation i'm in.

if i see some congestion up ahead and want to slow down a bit, i engine brake.

if i need to slow down quickly and/or stop, it's disk brakes, without a doubt.  of course, as they taught us in the MSF course, while i'm braking with my disk brakes, i keep downshifting so that as i'm slowing down, i'm always "in the right gear".  because of this, there is a bit of an engine-brake component as well.