Men or women : Who is dumber ...

[The Buddha]

Since Joerocker hasn't tossed out one to stir up the pot good I decided to join in ...
Yea darwin award recipients are all men I think so far ... but there has been the underlying possibility of gain in all those circumstances ... like tipping a vending machine for free candy bar or using dry fuel rocket launch boosters for your car ... You know some possibility of gain ...
I think the cake goes to those Idiot Women who write love letters to death row prisoners ... Just IMHO ... Act of rage, or hunger or thrill seeking ... etc is almost explainable ... done it many times ... but considering it takes a good 1/2 hour+ to write a letter and maybe searching for envelopes or stamps is another 10 mins where you're not emotional ... I'd say its the stupidest thing in the world ... BTW Its only in the US that it happens I believe ... so I guess american women are the dumbest of the lot ...
Now flame away ... I am soaking wet being out in the damn rain looking for a couple of things that rolled out of my garage this evening ... so your flames may only dry me ...  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

[conflicttheorist]

Why don't more men write letters to the women on death row?  I watched a news show about women in prison the other night... these women were real desperate and not all that bad looking.  Whatever happened to conjugal visits?

[Gisser]

Never underestimate the attraction of celebrity--even the infamous variety.  

[The Buddha]

Why don't more men write letters to the women on death row?  I watched a news show about women in prison the other night... these women were real desperate and not all that bad looking.  Whatever happened to conjugal visits?

Yea ... see that was precisely my point ... I think men on average are slightly dumber than women ... as an average for the entire gender ... but the exterme cases of stupidity ... its women out numbering men by 100 to 1 ... or more  :lol:  Hence my question ... who is dumber ... not who is smarter ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[conflicttheorist]

So what your saying is- no matter how stupid, irresponsible, and crappy a guy is there is always a woman who is dumb enough to want him?  Sort of a variation on the question of who is dumber- the idiot or the idiot following him?

[The Buddha]

Oh no not at all ... the crappier and stupider and irresponsibler a guy is the larger the throng of women who will claw through 1000's of feet of dirt, and through many many barbed wire fences to get their claws on him ... Of course if he is average (No offence to average) and normal and sorta boring ... they cant wait to run away from him ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[Michael]

Well, Srinath, unless you are a cross-dresser and really a female, I think you answered the question by asking it.

[Anonymous]

Gisser hit the nail on the head.  Celebrity.  Our society holds celebrity higher than just about anything else.  Look at the money spent on entertainment, on actors, performers.  Scott Peterson is getting marriage proposals...because he's famous.  Can you believe it?  Women seem to think that they can "change" a man, make him settle down, be loyal to them.  They think the other woman didn't do it right and they can.

I kills me how some (most?) women think.  They're attracted to the biggest, baddest, most powerful (socially) man.  Why?  Because it's ingrained into their being to find the best physical genes and the best provider for their children.  They want the alpha male.  Problem is, the man that fits their ideal isn't going to settle for just one woman.  Women have this twisted belief that they can change that.  Women think they can change Mr. bad-ass into Mr. mom.  Ladies, it doesn't happen.

BTW, there is NOTHING equal about men and women.  About the only similarily we have is a head, trunk, and two arms and legs.  Men are the muscular hunters.  Women are the frail gatherer/nurturers.  Show me ANY woman who can compete in mens professional sports.  Of course with an advanced society these roles are no longer needed and in a few (hundred) thousand years we may come closer together physically.  Mentally, men are the hunters and have better spacial and abstract skills.  We invent and plan "things".  Women have the empathic and social skills.  They can read people, work relationships, relate to others much better than men.

We each have our specialties.  That's just the way it is.  Who is dumber?  Depends on what you're looking at and what you consider dumb.  Men think women are dumb, they think we are.

And before the whiners start...  Yes, ALL men and ALL women don't have ALL these traits.  Remember that bell curve?  It applies here too.  There are fringes where a man IS litterally born with womans brain parts.  And women with man brain parts...  But that's in another thread...

The pots been stirred...

[SuZuki10]

..and what would the title of that thread be, Joe?

[Laura]

Men in uniforms are HAWT.

Show me ANY woman who can compete in mens professional sports.

Billy Jean King? Obviously men, on average, are bigger and stronger. I'm not sure what your point is here. That we're not the same? Obviously. Does that make women "frail"? Only if you think frail means small.

EDIT: In horse racing, women jockeys can compete with men jockeys.

Mentally, men are the hunters and have better spacial and abstract skills. We invent and plan "things". Women have the empathic and social skills. They can read people, work relationships, relate to others much better than men.

Are you serious? Do you really think men are smarter and women are better at socializing?

Men think women are dumb, they think we are.

I'm glad I don't live in your world. Most of the women I know think men are pretty great, and we certainly don't think men are dumb. And I don't think most men I know, in real life, think women are dumb.

[Stephen072774]

[The Buddha]

OK the post was who is dumber ... not who is smarter ... The average and the peaks of each gender are in complete indeterminate state ... as in ... average women and average men ... too close to call, smartest women and smartest men ... again too close to call ... stupidest men and stupidest women ... no contest ... The Idiot that kills 10 people in broad daylight with 20 people watching ... or the women who profess their eternal love to them ... Yes Plural ... women ... Large number ... Idiot that leads or Idiots that follow ... Now gender role reversal ... and the idiot female would have no followers ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[Michael]

Men in uniforms are HAWT.

Does that include scrubs?  Should I post a photo of myself in scrubs?  Huh?  Huh?

[Anonymous]

Laura,

Billy Jean King played Bobby Riggs when she was in her prime (30) and he was an over the hill 55 and long retired.  The whole thing was a joke.  Like Andy Kaufman wrestling.  She was NOT playing in MENS tennis.  She played mostly mixed doubles.  She's never played/beaten a man in the mens division.  BTW, did you know she's ghey?  She has MAN parts in her brain.  I'd be curious to see a study on top woman athletes and whether they're ghey.  Bet there are a LOT of them.  Need that testosterone for agression.  Agression equals the "win at all costs" mentality needed for professional sports.

Jockeys?  That's not a physical sport.  There, the smaller and lighter you are the better you can be.  The HORSE is doing the work.  Same with driving, there are woman drivers too.  The CAR is doing the racing.  Show me a woman runner that holds the world record.  THE world record, not the womans record.  Show me a woman in the NFL.  A woman in the NBA. A woman on ANY professional team that isn't in the womans league.  If they opened up the womans leagues to men there wouldn't be any women left.  The women can't compete in the mens leagues.

Yes, woman are FRAIL compared to men.

There would be NO women in sports if there weren't womens sports.  If all professional teams were composed of only the best, we'd never see a woman in a sport.

I said REAL physical sports.  Look at the records.  Bet you won't find any women faster, stronger, farther, etc. than a man.

Where did I say smarter?  I said different.  You are MUCH smarter than I in socializing skills.  That is a VERY important skill/talent to have.  I guess you need to be smart enough to READ what is being said and to understand it.

I can't believe you don't "like my world" because it's the world you live in.  You can't argue these points.  We ARE as different as night and day.  We just are.  And all the "make you feel good about yourself" little stories you read won't change it.  Men are rough, tough, and violent.  How is that good?  Women are nurturing.  How is that bad?  If you really want to be a man, have what we have, then yes, you're going to be disappointed.  What is wrong with being a woman, yes, not as physically strong, but with your own specialties?  That is the problem with women libbers, they want to be the same as men.  They NEVER will be.  I don't think women should be cops, firemen, soldiers, MANY fields where strength is REQUIRED.  Yes, there are SOME big tough women but they are VERY few and far between.  And I bet biologically they're closer to men than women.  So, OK I guess you can let them in as long as they can keep up and do EVERYTHING without lowering the standards.

You just want to be equal and you'll NEVER be.  Equal means the same.  We're NOT the same.  Work on your OWN self-esteem.  Dwell on YOUR strengths not mine.

I think the big problem is not with us, it's with you.  You resent the helplessness that comes with your gender.  The helplessness that comes with reproduction.  You NEED help in pregnancy, childbirth, and for years after, while raising the child.  A woman is DEPENDENT on either a man, another woman, or society for years and years when she has a child.  That's just the facts ma'am.

A man can screw you and walk away without a care in the world.  You're stuck with all the crap that goes along with reproduction.  


You're jealous.

Want to know the REAL reason women don't always get the opportunities that men get in business?  RELIABILITY.  You're not as reliable as men.  A woman will USUALLY quit work to have children.  That investment the company made in her is now wasted.  Better to groom a man who won't leave.  Also, a woman with children is much more likely to miss work due to childrens illnesses.  Again, companies need EVERYONE there EVERYDAY.  Why have someone who is absent more than another in a critical position?  Not good business sense.

If we'd just accept our roles in life and not try to artificially "equalize" everything, we'd be MUCH better off.

[cernunos]

Joe, you seem to have a suspiciously anti-female, anti-ghey complex. Are you a compensator? If women are not as able in the physical sports I don't think it's because they are female but because society continues to insist from a very young age that they behave in a certain manner. It has just come to light in the past decade or so that females have as much ability as men in anything that can be compared. Men do generally develop more bulky stronger physiques but other than that it would seem the playing field is pretty much evening out. As far as jockeys and race-car drivers, well, it's obvious you have never been either one. Horses do not just run races by themselves and cars definitely do not. And did you know that the most accomplished airbatic pilots are now women? And as far as who is dumber...shaZam!, that's definitely a toss-up. If you ask me I think both sexes can tend to be equivalently stooopid. Heck they are all around me. Love the Baby GS and this forum.

C.......

[CasiUSA]

We each have our specialties.  That's just the way it is.  Who is dumber?  Depends on what you're looking at and what you consider dumb.  Men think women are dumb, they think we are.

And before the whiners start...  Yes, ALL men and ALL women don't have ALL these traits.  Remember that bell curve?  It applies here too.  There are fringes where a man IS litterally born with womans brain parts.  And women with man brain parts...  But that's in another thread...

The pots been stirred...

Hammer - Nail. We all do have our specialties- example: Joe's specialty is taking a group of people and making a broad generalization that apparently applies to all of them. Then again, what else would we expect from a person who works so hard to fulfill the stereotype of ignorant rural trailer trash?

[Laura]

Jockeys? That's not a physical sport.

You obviously don't know much about riding, if you don't think it is physical. Secondly, why are you even trying to argue the point? I clearly stated that OBVIOUSLY, in general men are bigger and stronger than women. This isn't rocket science. Even I can understand this.

Where did I say smarter? I said different. You are MUCH smarter than I in socializing skills. That is a VERY important skill/talent to have. I guess you need to be smart enough to READ what is being said and to understand it.

If you consider having good social skills, as being "smart", fine. When you say men are better at spacial and abstract skills, and at inventing and planning things, and that women are more empathetic and have better social skills, it sounds  an awful lot like a politically correct way of saying that men have better minds, and that women have better hearts. If that's not what you meant, then it's my mistake. But it is interesting that in your explanation of the differences between men and women, you left out the fact that women consistently outperform men in verbal ability and reading comprehension tests. Two things that are traditionally correlated with intelligence. (Not just the Gardner's more modern and politically correct idea of intelligence).

And what is all this "you" stuff? Are you addressing me as a representative of the entire gender? Or me personally? Either way it is asinine. Women aren't all the same, and you know very little about me as an individual. So, I'm going to ignore that entire section where you say I'm jealous, that I want to be equal, that I should work on my self-esteem, that I have better socializing skills.

You NEED help in pregnancy, childbirth, and for years after, while raising the child. A woman is DEPENDENT on either a man, another woman, or society for years and years when she has a child. That's just the facts ma'am.

A man can screw you and walk away without a care in the world. You're stuck with all the crap that goes along with reproduction.

This may have been valid before the advent of the pill, and before women could get decent paying jobs. You, and I mean you personally, Sir, may WISH that women were still helpless and dependent, and not able to screw a man and walk away without a care in the world. But we can. And you know what else? Most any woman can have sex ANYTIME she wants to. Most men can't, unless they use force, which is illegal in this country. Does this make you feel emasculated, or threatened?

Of the men I know, the ones who are smartest, strongest, and most confident and successful- They don't feel the need to enumerate on the differences between men as a group and women as a group. It's obvious, and it is obvious that they are real men. Strong, smart, brave, able to support a family. They don't feel threatened by successful, strong, sexy, intelligent women. It's the less intelligent, less successful, less attractive guys who need to do this. Because they know most men are more attractive, more successful, smarter, and stonger. They CAN'T compete with men and come out ahead, so they feel a need to point out how they ARE stronger and smarter than women. Oh, and the women who are stronger and faster than most men- they must be ghey or have man parts.

[EDIT] So, do you think women that have better abstract reasoning skills, and are better at planning things, are ghey or have man parts too? Perhaps men who would NEVER consider walking off and leaving their children without a care in the world are girly-men, in your eyes.

For what it is worth, I do agree with you that for women to be cops, firemen, soldiers, etc. that they should be able to do everything the men are required to do. There shouldn't be separate standards for men and women.

OK the post was who is dumber ... not who is smarter

I know, but you said you wanted to stir the pot.   It's a tough call. The women are stupid, but they are still alive. And while I admire people who will take risks for the possibility of big gains, it's awfully dumb to risk your life for a free candy bar. Unfortunately, the dumb women are able to give birth and spread the dumbness around.

Does that include scrubs?

Oh yeah, baby.  :kiss:  

[Anonymous]

Laura,

No, the you is not "you" specifically.  It is your gender in general.

Oh, I DO consider good social skills as "smart".  In fact there is a whole field of thought believing in two types of intelligence.  The standard IQ and a "social intelligence".  Women by and large are MUCH better in the social skills than men.  That is a GOOD thing.  You talk your way into/out of things.  We hit to get what we want.  (Of course NOT always literally for all those out there with purely black and white minds.)  I truly believe that women have their strengths and their place.  Just as men have their strengths and their place.  What I DO object to is people trying to convince us all the we are EQUAL.  We are not.  We both have areas where we excel and areas where we don't.  We are not equal.

IF (please read that word)... IF a woman decides to have a baby SHE NEEDS HELP.  I won't argue that, it's a given.  Didn't I say that with a modern society help it there?  Things ARE different now.  That these traits are residual, left over from the days of old.  I believe I was quite clear.  But, even in modern society a pregnant woman or a woman with a newborn is at a REAL "independence" disadvantage.  She just is.  She NEEDS help from someone or she won't survive.

And yes, I DO envy how easy it is for a woman to have sex.  Hell, all she has to do is walk out into the street and ask out loud "anyone want to have sex with me?" and there will be a dozen takers.  I'd LOVE it if it was that easy for me.  But alas, I'm not a celebrity...

I like smart women more than just plain beautiful/sexy.  See, the sexy ones, you know their game.  They want the attention, and lavish gifts.  They're always looking for the better deal.  Too much work for me.  Too much worrying.  Sorry, not worth the trouble to me.  I've dated VERY beautiful women in my days.  I've seen how THEY act, and how other men act around them.  People scheme, we all do.  I don't need to be worrying every time they're alone.  Just as they would have to worry if I were some celebrity.  

Funny how the average woman says she's had sex with 4.5 men and men say they've been with 15.5 women.  Since the population is 51% to 49% women to me, someone is lying big time.  Or else there are a few women out there doing 10 guys an hour racking up some big numbers.  Personally, I believe the men and not the women.  What's the story we get, oh yea, "besides you there was only my first boyfriend, he told me he wanted to marry me, so we did it, just once...."

- OK, this is more for everyone now, in general -

You REALLY need to read my posts and not just target in on this detail and that.  I always clearly state that there is a bell curve and that most men are in the middle of THEIR bell curve as most women are in the middle of theirs.  For any given strength or weakness you'll find that mens and womens bell curves DON'T line up.  They don't overlap.

I also tried to explain WHY women don't receive equal opportunity and equal pay.  There IS a reason for it.  Men don't wake up in the morning and say "how can I discriminate today".  It's the members of a group who want to buck the trend, who don't want to do what is "normal" who create the problems.  Women are SUPPOSED to have the babies, stay home, and raise them.  Men are supposed to go to work and earn a living.  THAT is how it's supposed to work.  You may not like it, but it's a fact.  Things run much better that way.  You may not agree, fine, you're wrong, but fine.  When society mimics nature, things run better for everyone.

I think most of you just key in on key words and start screaming every time you see them.  Doesn't matter how it was written, what context it was in, you just see something "un-politically correct" and jump in.

I'm a man, of course I'm happy being a man, I brag on being a man.  Women - brag on being a woman.

Casi,

Once again, nothing of note to say so you resort to your trademark name calling.

c,

You think a Mike Tyson is made and not born?  What are you talking about?  Look at all the statistics on size, weight, strength.  Men are bigger, stronger, and overall, more athletic than women.  It has nothing to do with society.  OK, lets compare bench pressing...  Go to a gym, any gym, and have a contest.  What are you saying?  Physically there is NO contest.  Please read my post fully before commenting.  I said, generally men are better at spacial and abstract thought.  Women, as Laura stated, ARE better at language and reading.  They just are.  It's not society, it's "what was each genders job throughout the ages".  Men had to plan a hunt, to visualize in their head landscape, trajectory, you know, hunting stuff.  Women on the other hand worked in groups, talking, teaching, raising children, and most importantly, keeping the "alpha" males from killing all the other offspring.  Women learned to reason with testosterone.  It's a GOOD thing they can do.

All your examples are someone "driving" something else.  Something else is doing the work and the driver simply "directs" it.  Is it hard to jockey a horse, I'm sure it is.  Does it get tireing driving a car, sure.  But it's STILL NOT a true sport where it's just you doing a thing.  Men throw farther, throw faster, jump higher, jump farther, run faster, run farther, etc, etc.

Remember the bell curve.  There will always be that one in a million woman who can jump real high.  But given 1,000 men and 1,000 women, the mens AVERAGE will be much higher than the womens.  And as far as records are concerned, the men hold them all.

BOTH sexes have their good points AND their bad points.  My post was only to show that we are NOT equal.  Meaning, NOT the same.

I don't think I even picked one as "smarter or dumber".  I believe I simply stated that we're both dumb in our own ways.

[CasiUSA]

Casi,

Once again, nothing of note to say so you resort to your trademark name calling.

You're right, Joe. Maybe I could reference the ghey thread that you started and ran away from like a child because I, like 15 other people tore your weak-ass "arguments" to shreds.
Or like in that thread where I made a point about ghey marriage and the best thing you could come up with was "btw, casi, why don't you draw your own picture?" You were so right. I could be completely original and draw a yin-yang like the other 38 Million poseurs on the planet.

BUt it's OK, I'm sure you'll walk away with your tail between your legs like you did on the ghey marriage thread.

Life- 1
Joerocker- 0

Anyway back to the point- Men and women aren't equal. Nobody's truly equal. The point is that if it can get done by a person, let them do it. I know girls who could beat the crap out of lots of guys in sports.  
As far as jobs, etc. same applies. I think that's as simple as that. As far as who's dumber? we're all pretty dumb in our own right.

[Anonymous]

casi,

Blah, blah, blah... same old nonsense.

Please say something useful.  Show me some numbers.  Construct an original or reasonable thought.  Prove to me how women and men are equal.  That IS what you object to right?  My "generalizing", my "characterizing".  Prove that I'm wrong, that there is no difference.  Prove that evolution had nothing to do with how we act as a gender.

See, you believe in "if they CAN do it, let them", while I believe "let the BEST do it".  

Why are you so kind?  I believe you said this about me: "ignorant rural trailer trash".  You see, once again you prove YOUR ignorance.  I grew up in your area.  I hung out in Washington Square Park, The Bottom Line, CBGBs, all over The Village.  But it was before your time (early 70s) and before it was overrun by gays.  I am QUITE worldly and have lived in many city and rural areas.  I've lived in NJ, CA, AK, HI, IL, FL, TX, AL, and overseas.  It is because of my experiences that I know first hand that what you're officially told about things isn't usually the entire truth.  It's because of all the crap in the cities and over populated states that I chose to retire in AL.  I'd take a place where everyone knows their neighbors, waves, says "hey", don't need to lock the doors, keep the engine running when going into the store, just plain freindly, safe, and pleasant, than ANYWHERE else.

Again, you seem to have no grasp of the BELL CURVE.  Go look it up.  On average the boys beat the girls in sports.  How many girls "could" make the varsity football team?  Hocky?  Baseball?  Wrestling?  Even if you say 1 or 2 or even 3, I've still made my point.  If we were in fact equal it would be a 50/50 team.  Evolution plays a MAJOR role in the gender differences.  We're each good at different things.

BTW, I hung in there alone for what, 8 PAGES, against 15 of you "trying" to rip me a new one.  Pretty impressive if I do say so myself.  You should be so brave.  I beg to differ with your rational.  You did NOT win and I did NOT run.  YOU need to read the research papers, you need to look at the raw numbers and come to your OWN conclusions, and not join the heard who have been beguiled by those who wish to "twist" the truth to their own benefit.

I appologize for making fun of your picture.  Many people idolize John Lennon and it was inconsiderate of me to belittle you over it.  

I think my picture is neat, kind of mezmerizing.  Sorry you don't like it.  It's supposed to hypnotize you so you believe everything I say.

Doesn't work huh?