Help!! Turn signal issue

[Destro]

Hooking up GSXR turn signals to a 1992 GS500.  Connected the back set  so that when you hit the signal, they light up (no blink).  Can't get the front set, in the right configuration to turn on properly.  I have 3 options in the assembly, 2 places with separate connectors for each lead, and one that are fused together.  Don't know which set of leads to hook up to which turn signal.  The previous set of turn signals were removed before I got the motorcycle, so I have not seen the default settings.  Thanks for any and all help.

[starwalt]

Ok Destro, I haven't a clue what the third wire does on your turn signals, but here is a thread on turn signals with a simplified schematic I made or the GS turn signal wiring. Read down the thread for the drawing.

If you know anything about electricity, you should be able to follow it. If you are new to ohms, volts, and amps...this may take more time.

[Jake D]

Destro. . .

Is your bike running?

(mine will be again very soon).

[Destro]

Got them hooked up, but they don't blink.  Thanks Starwalt for your help, I will search the forum for that, I am sure I saw something about it on here.

Jake, got the bike home on Saturday, waiting on a tank from ebay, need to get the lights hooked up, and the exhaust gasket back on, only has one bolt in.  Congrats on the house, where you living.

[Destro]

OK, unfortunately, the GSXR wires have no indication of positive or negative.  So it is just trial and error for me, do all four turn signals have to be hooked up in order to blink? :dunno:  The turn signal light on the dashboard  comes on and I can hear a connection on the right side of the subframe, front and rear come on, but no blinky.  Hopefully someone can help. Thanks again, this forum is the greatest!!

[John Bates]

.......... GSXR turn signals ............

How many wires are coming out of each turn signal and what do the connectors look like?

[Destro]

2 wires, both black with white spots.

[John Bates]

In the headlight housing you will find the single wires for the front turn signals.  A light green wire is for the right turn signal.  A solid black wire is for the left. These are 12V switched on and off by the turn signal relay. There are also two black/white ground wires, one for each turn signal.


Normally the center contact of the bulb is 12V and the base of the bulb is connected to ground.

At the rear, under the seat, on each side are the wires for the rear turn signals. They are the same colors as the front. The same connections apply.

[Destro]

Thanks John, that helped me get them hooked up, but they do not blink.  When I push the right turn signal, they light up steady, same with the left, but no blink!:x  I have been switching the 2 leads at each turn signal and re-checking, but it doesn't seem to be working.   I was wondering how many have to be hooked correctly for it to start blinking or if maybe this is a different issue.  Thanks for any input from the forum.

[starwalt]

Happy to hear you got them on now...but as to the blinking...

The blinking is dependent on the turn signal relay doing its job. The TSR is on the right side of the bike under the side panel. It has a connector with two wires on it and is represented on the schematic mentioned previously.

Your TSR may, or may not be, load dependent (although I can see no way out of this with a two wire setup). That means if you go with LED signals, your turn signal relay may quit working. The LED site I mentioned (somewhere) sells resistors to increase the load (current, amperage) so that the TSR works again.

Some people have different brands of TSRs on their GS. Some blink faster with more load, others seem to blink slower. I have spent way too much time analyzing TSRs (just wait until I post the PSPICE models   ).

Try another TSR of a different brand to see if it starts working.

[Destro]

Thanks Doug!  I don't believe that these are LED's, as they are stock GSXR turn signals.  I went and set up a permutation chart for the possible wiring setups and changed them one by one for all combinations. And still no blinking.  I can hear the TSR engage, it sounds like a piece of metal "sproing"ing.  So it is connecting, do you think the load is not high enough to get it back off the connection? :dunno:   I will probably get the wagner 522 srinath mentioned in another post and see what happens.  I will post the outcome and if anyone has any further imput, please feel free to post.  Thanks as always to the forum.

[starwalt]

The stock GS turn signal relay does not have a bimetallic strip. It uses a self oscillating RCL circuit.

The "dead" state is for the contacts to be closed allowing the signals to turn on. This current feeds the RCL circuit and then opens the contacts causing the lights to go off. When off, the RCL neutralizes and the contacts close causing the lights to come on. And so on, and so on...

It sounds like the TSR contacts are welded "on" from current flow. This would cause the lights to stay on and you would hear the "sproing" sound probably once and then nothing.

You could burnish the contacts to confirm this, but the Wagner will work and probably has a higher current rating.

[Destro]

Doug, looks like I will get the wagner.  Again I am always impressed by your infinite knowledge of the most mundane of parts.  Thanks as always.  I may take my old one apart and see what it looks like, if any thing cool I will post pictures here.

-Shayne

[starwalt]

... I may take my old one apart and see what it looks like, if any thing cool I will post pictures here.

OOOooo! Send it to me! I'll pay shipping.  :lol: Really. If I can get it working I can use it as a spare or help one of our far away GSTwin members for the cost of shipping it there. If it is toast, it goes to the dump.

Actually I have posted some pics of the internals of the TSR. In the same set I show soldering the pinch type connections of the silly thing. But, do open it up and observe the insides. If you REALLY want to know more than the average bear about a TSR, I can send you the internal schematic I made along with the unpublished pics.

It's not high drama, but moderately entertaining to a few of us.

[Destro]

I will do you one better.  I will ship it to you on me, pm your addy.  As soon as I get the replacement on and working I will get it to you.  The least I can do for all your help. Send me the schematic too, make for an interesting read.
-Shayne

[starwalt]

Ok Shayne, you called me out. Here's the simplified schematic. The signal circuit actually gets the return path to ground through the unused signals.



The Large Coil of wire in this drawing is actually wrapped around the finer wire of the relay coil that produces the magnetic field to pull the contact open.

I told you this was analyzed way too much.  :lol:
I'll PM you my address. Thank you....I think.  

[Destro]

OK, in the true gstwin spirit, pulled the TSR and took a look at it with the cover off and it looks in great shape.  I took a look at where the contact is made to complete the circuit and it looks a little black, but not welded together by any means.  From what I can see it looks like the small metal piece that makes the connection is loose to the metal it is attached to and pulled by the magnet. (I hope this makes sense!) Is there any way to make the little piece tighter to the big piece, and how can I clean up that connection a small emory board?  Thanks as always.

-Shayne

[starwalt]

When I said "welded" I meant it in a functional sense, not in the MIG, TIG, Wire type of sense. If you were to watch an operational TSR, you would see a spark between the contacts as they seperate during the "sproing" phase. This spark is, in essence, a tiny arc. They add up and eventually erode the contact and eventually cause the contacts to stick together. They "weld".

To clean this, you can use this method:
Push down gently on the contact arm and slide a bit of paper (or very fine sandpaper) between the black contacts.




Slide the paper back and forth and watch the carbon come off. Emory boards are too big. You could use 1000 grit sandpaper or some finishing paper. On larger relay contacts, emory boards can be used, but we have a special relay contact burnisher for those cases.

While you are in there, visually follow the connections from the bottom of the relay where the wiring harness connects, to the relay top portion. Those little contacts have to handle the current of those big connections and that big wire coiled around.

Also look on the bottom where the connector contacts are. I usually see lots of rust there due to splash and atmosphere.

Way to go dude! You are on the road to forensic electronics!  

[Destro]

Cleaned the switch with paper as your picture, and reattached. Does not make the sproing noise, but still no blink.  I removed it and it seemed to stick a little before it came loose again.  Clean it some more?  I am going to take it to work with me tomorrow to have a friend of mine who has a bike to take a look at it, see if a new set of eyes notices something I miss.

O/T: What kind of camera/setup are you using in your pics?  I tried to take some close up pictures of my relay, but it wouldn't get  very clear and I had to turn off the flash or it reflected too much.  Thanks for the assistance and I look forward to your response.

-Shayne

[The Buddha]

Its wagner 552 not 522 ... but you get the general idea ... you want electronic instead of bi metal ... the metal scraping/clicking/sproinging = bi met. Wagner makes a distinctively softer plastic buzz ... probably on purpose with a piezo buzzer - Is that so starwalt ??
Cool.
Srinath.