The Patriot Act

[cernunos]

The Pres is pushing for the Patriot Act to be renewed...permanently. Think it should be permanent or not? I think it sometimes goes too far. Love the bike, USA, and the forum.

C........

[davipu]

it's just a bunch of hibbidy hoopla, like clinton's gun crap.  the only reason it's here is to please the masses.  it's time we start accepting responsibility for our actions and realize that govt cannot regulate our lives.  unless you want to live in a rat cage whare you have to have a passport to go to work and the puter chip in your noodle is being tracked by the CIA so that you are not a threat to others.                  


gnihsif enog

[cobalt135]

Gee, if we need it so much now....how the heck did we ever get by without it for all the previous decades?  I usually dont get into all the political debates but some of this stuff is going too far.  Just heard this week the TSA can start fining you BIG bucks for those nail clippers toothpicks and lighters you carry to the airport.  Your 2 or 3 books of matches are OK to bring along though    :x

[Mat]

its one book of matches per person and you have to carry it on you

[Jake D]

Politics of fear.

Effective for controlling the masses.  Whoops!  I hope this poll doesn't get "noticed".  We'd probably get bumped up to Orange!

[That guy]

JakeD- I believe the correct color is tangerine  

[Daniely]

I say no, a very passionate no. I do not wish to delve too deep, but im sticking with no.

Jose Pedilla ring a bell to anyone? If i remember correctly he is STILL being held with no charges filed and incommunicado.

[goat]

It'll probably pass, though. It's like that extra, unrelated shaZam! they added onto a recent emergency funding bill. Stuff that wouldn't have passed if it wasn't attached to a bill that senators/congressman would have been reamed out for not supporting it.

Supporting a bill called the Patriot act is patriotic. Questioning it would be wrong. The only people that question bills like that are un-american. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Personally, I sleep better at night knowing that the patriot act is keeping me safe by protecting me from file sharers, grandmas with knitting needles and my own freedom.

I should probably stop before I start ranting more.

[Stephen072774]

I don't like it either... I don't like the way its written...

But I think most of us would agree we need some of the stuff in the Patriot act, right?  Is there a better plan?

[Daniely]

I think RESTRICTING some of the communication and powers granted in the patriot act by revising it, and re-introducing it (AFTER A VERY VERY THOUROUGH GOING OVER) and THEN checking to see if its constitutional, which i bet it still wont be. But even then, I still wouldnt like it, in its present form its crap, and in any bastardised forms it will be crap.

[Anonymous]

You CANNOT have an entirely free country AND protect the people from sick assholes who want to blow it all up.  IT CAN'T BE DONE.  You either have total freedom OR you have controls and snooping to weed out the bad guys.  It's very simple (this time).  You choose.

a.  Totally free and someday blown up.

b.  Not TOTALLY free but mostly free and fairly safe.  Not 100% but pretty good.

c.  Not free at all and still gonna get blown up some day.

Exactly WHAT are you doing where you must fear the government?  They're NOT going to just scoop you up off the streets for NO reason.  You HAVE to be VERY suspicious to be nabbed.  EVERYONE in jail says they're innocent!

[goat]

You CANNOT have an entirely free country AND protect the people from sick assholes who want to blow it all up.  IT CAN'T BE DONE.  You either have total freedom OR you have controls and snooping to weed out the bad guys.  It's very simple (this time).  You choose.

a.  Totally free and someday blown up.

b.  Not TOTALLY free but mostly free and fairly safe.  Not 100% but pretty good.

c.  Not free at all and still gonna get blown up some day.

Exactly WHAT are you doing where you must fear the government?  They're NOT going to just scoop you up off the streets for NO reason.  You HAVE to be VERY suspicious to be nabbed.  EVERYONE in jail says they're innocent!

See sig

[RVertigo]

See sig

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin

+1

[Anonymous]

That my friend was written a LONG time ago during a time when bio, chem, nuke, weapons did not exhist.  It was a MUCH simpler time.

If we could eliminate ALL the radical (true believer) Muslims, I'd agree.  We cannot.  They want our culture gone.  They will keep trying until they succede.

Only a FOOL doesn't react when a known enemy has declared "jihad" on them.  You must be a fool.

[RVertigo]

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin

[Anonymous]

OK, here is my quote:

Only a fool ignores a threat from an enemy, and as a fool, deserves a quick demise.

joerocker, 6/10/05


Tell me oh wise one...  What ESSENTIAL liberty ARE you giving up?  Do you lose your right to speak?  Gather?

What are you losing besides pure privacy (which you're dreaming if you think you had that)?

What are you hiding?

Do you REALLY think the government is reading all your mail?  Listening to your phone?  Watching you from helicopters?

My God man, you are paranoid.

This is simply to stop suspicious BAD people.  People who want you dead.  They REALLY do you know, as hard as it is for you to believe.

[RVertigo]

I'd rather be free...  If safety was my number one concern, I'd move into a bomb shelter in the middle of nowhere and have no interaction with the outside world.  I wouldn't walk the streets of ANY city...  Or even enter a city for that matter...  and I certainly wouldn't ride a motorcycle.

Freedom is more important than safety.  Yes, we need to be safe to be free, but you must weigh the costs of each.

Live Free or Die.

[Anonymous]

But you ARE free!  What freedom are you losing?  Please name it!

And IF these Muslim whackos do strike, you wouldn't be safe there either.  Unless you have provisions for a long long time.

Think about this:  IF they were to get a nuke.  It could EASILY be put in a container and on a ship.  Once in a US harbor, say NY or LA it could be detonated.  Remember they had pilots for 911, they could easily get their people working in a port.  A detonation of a nuke in a major city would cause panic the likes of which even God has never seen.  Now, you tell me, what would the people in EVERY major city do?  What would they do when aljazeera reported the terrorists had more bombs ALREADY planted in other cities?  EVERYONE would flee.  What happens when the cities empty?  Everything stops.  The US collapses.

Is that worth a LITTLE "spying" on questionable people?

You're only not free to cause havoc, to blow us up, to poison us, to harm us.  Unless you do something to WARRANT suspicion, why would anyone want to know what you're doing?  Why would anyone CARE?

I'd imagine IF you are Muslim you'll be watched more closely than some white guy from wherever you live.  Profiling DOES work!

[cernunos]

The main problem with the Patriot Act as I see it is the opening of a door to allow for the exclusion or the suspension of alienable rights as put forth by our Constitution. It allows for authority to detain an individual without due process of law for one thing. It also extends power to search an individual's possessions without that same process of law. These are but two examples of the act which trouble the majority of lawmakers and judges in the USA. The wording is "sugar coated" so that the average person believes it will not pertain to them...but surely someone with an IQ higher than an egg can read through it. One of the problems I have with a lot of people is exactly, and ironically, what Joe tends to put forth; people have forgotten how to read or they have lost the interest or incentive to read and understand items on this country's agenda which have influence upon their future. Love the Baby GS, USA (even with Joe and Wilson), and this forum.

C........

[cernunos]

Ooooops....misspelled a word above....alienable should, of course, be "inalienable" (big difference). Love the little GS, Maine (lotta friendly people there), and this forum.

C........