What is it with Muslims and bombs?

[Anonymous]

Cal,

I find myself in a LOT of different camps because I don't subscribe to either the left, right, or middle. EVERY situation is its own "problem" and needs it's own solution.

Chino,

?

c,

OK, you got me, I DO care a little.  What I meant is I don't go crying home when you call me names.  I DEFEND myself.  If you "go for the throat", I'll cut to the bone.  I TRY very hard NOT to be personally nasty to anyone.  I TRY to stick to the discussion and not become personal.

Of course I want to win.  Everyone does.  To compare to your chess game...  Maybe I'm just a "grand master" and that it's why it's no fun to play?  HA!

A few facts and comments on Islam

The term "Islam" is derived from the Arabic root (SLM) which connotes "peace" or "SUBMISSION".

This is Islam - absolute submission or resignation to the will of Allah.

The Koran elaborates on the ways in which the followers of the prophets, specifically the Jews and the Christians, have or have not lived up to the prophetic messages.

The underlying mission of the followers of Islam is to convert or "remove" ALL "unbelievers".  They believe Islam is the only "true" or "right" religion; all others are Pagans, not worthy of Allah and the glories of heaven.

Islam is an authoritarian religion, bent on the destruction of ALL other beliefs.  Having an Islamic Mosque down the street is akin to having a KKK meeting hall down the street.  Islam does NOT advocate peace and love unless you happen to be another Muslim!  Islam is inconsistent with American/western values, hence the long history of problems and conflict within and with the Middle Eastern countries.

Below are several quotes of English translations of the Koran:

Sura 2:98  -  Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Gabriel and Michael, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers

Sura 5:51  -  O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust

Sura 9:5  -  But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

Sura 9:29  -  Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

Sura 9:30  -  The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Sura 4:150  -  "Those who deny Allah and His apostles, saying: 'We believe in some but reject others,' and those who wish to take a course midway, they are in truth equally unbelievers and We have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment."

Sura 5:75  -  Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

Sura 5:78  -  Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses

Sura 5:80  -  Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that God's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide

Sura 9:14  -  Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers

Sura 9:83  -  If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind."

Sura 9:31  -  They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

Sura 9:6  -  If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Sura 9:28  -  O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

Sura 9:33  -  It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

Sura 9:113  -  It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.

Sura 2:111  -  And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."

Sura 2:90  -  Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith.

Sura 2:211  -  Ask the Children of Israel how many clear (Signs) We have sent them. But if any one, after Allah's favor has come to him, substitutes (something else), Allah is strict in punishment.

Sura 3:11  -  (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh, and their predecessors: They denied our Signs, and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.

Sura 3:178  -  Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.

Sura 4:14  -  But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

Sura 4:84  -  Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

Sura 4:151  -  They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Sura 98:6  -  The unbelievers among the People of the Book(Jews) and the pagans (Christians and others) shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

Oh yes, a VERY peaceful religion indeed...

[indestructibleman]

all your base are belong to us.

[CasiUSA]

Yes, Islam is the only religion that has text that could be interpreted into violence... oh, wait:

Exodus
22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
22:19
Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
22:20
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

plenty more old testament ones if you want me to list them, but let's skip to the new testament, just to get JC's perspective on the whole deal, shall we?

Luke
11:23
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Acts
3:23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

2 Cor
6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

*Got this from Zara when he posted on another thread

[CasiUSA]

Aaand another one:
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
           - Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

[indestructibleman]

i'd almost go with Joe's suggestion that we'd be better off without religion except that he has proved the existence of secular hate.

[cernunos]

That's what I mean. If you read either one of them then you can find individual passages which, if taken out of context, can delude an individual to believe they should start a mass killing...if taken out of context. I said to show me in the Quran where people are commanded to go out on their own and start killing people, boom, just to go out and do it. Every single one of these verses you just took the time to paste and waste are taken entirely out of context. The Muslims I have talked and discoursed with have basically stated wording quite similar to what is spouted by Christians; there will come a time when a great fight or battle will come, being won by the armies of JC or Allah...depending on which branch yer from. Joe, the tiresome thing is that you continue to post writings which are entirely out of context which causes the game to slow down and get out of sort. Similar to moving a pawn on a diagonal, thereby forcing your opponent to not only play the game but to also ensure that you play by the rules.

Love the little bike, Football (derived by a game invented by the Mexicans), and this forum.

C........

[cernunos]

Wait just one freakin' minute........I know I was in a lot of pain last nite, but I could of sworn I read a post, a most eloquent barbed post, by one of the most esteemed moderators on this planet, last nite. Now it is gone. Why was that removed? There was nothing wrong with that post and I felt it was rather brave and upstanding of the individual who wrote it. I felt proud to know of this man (still do)...what happened? Love the little bike, that mod (never met him), and this forum.

C........

[davipu]

did you look in the tard farm?

[indestructibleman]

C,

check the media bias thread

[cernunos]

Ok, didn't look far enough...thing should've been pasted into all of these threads  :lol: . Love the little Baby, Wolves (they mate for life you know), and this forum.

C........

[Blueknyt]

being as i wasnt presant for any of the transscribing of ANY Holy book even in the smallest of chapters.  i wont belive everything i read as im sure the authors glitzed it up with thier own flavor.

[Anonymous]

Blue,

And you are wise to believe that.  

It's common knowledge that the Bible/Torah were written by MANY people over a LONG time.  Supposedly the Quran is "gods words" spoken directly through Mohammad.

Now, exactly WHAT context could this be:

Sura 98:6 - The unbelievers among the People of the Book(Jews) and the pagans (Christians and others) shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

Oh, I see, the context of:  If you're NOT a Muslim, you are lower than scum and the only place fitting your kind is hell.  At least NOW you know where you stand.

Sura 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

Here the context is:  Kill everyone who isn't a Muslim unless they convert totally.

Sura 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

Again, it's "our" way of the highway (or should I say no way)

Sura 4:150 - "Those who deny Allah and His apostles, saying: 'We believe in some but reject others,' and those who wish to take a course midway, they are in truth equally unbelievers and We have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment."

Here they say "completely a Muslim or NOT a Muslim at all".  There is NO half way.  In for a penny in for a pound.  You follow ALL the rules or else.

Sura 9:14 - Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers

God will help you to kill the infidels.

Sura 9:28 - O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

So, show me ANY other religion that WON'T let "unbelievers" NEAR their holy structures.  Do Catholics keep Baptists away from thier churches?  When I was in Saudi Arabia we were told STAY AWAY from Mosques!  Why?  Because THAT is where the anti-everyone else talk goes on.

Sura 3:11 - (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh, and their predecessors: They denied our Signs, and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.

Again, kill whole civilizations who don't believe.  They're STILL at it.  Convert or kill, that is the mantra.

You people are B-L-I-N-D.

And if I remember kerrys post.  1-7 is what I'm after.  I DO want you to see more than what is commonly available to you.

BTW, my BEST most hard hitting "truths", loaded with facts, are usually the end of the thread.  They are deleted.  So, I HAVE to watch what and how I say things.

I guess the truth is TOO brutal and needs to be censored.

That too is a form of control and a loss of rights.

[CasiUSA]

Yes, you have done a wonderful job of ignoring facts from the other side presented right in front of you.

ALL RELIGIONS have text that can easily interpreted in negative ways.

[pantablo]

you guys have too much time on your hands...and thanks for keeping this thread civil. tard farm if it goes south.

[josei norite]

wow, just joined, thought very cool a gs site, but reading the kickoff to this topic string i was really appalled. Violence is a human traite and not the providence of one religion or culture, to make blanket statements about how all Moslems are this or that is to tar yourself with the same brush of  intolerance.  that you are outraged about killing, about individuals being denied basic freedoms, that is the right inpulse but where you've carried that is way off base. Don't you see in making Moslems the enemy because they are Moslem you legitimize what you seem to detest--the idea that one who doesnt hold the same beliefs is wrong and not deserving of respect, of life.  Of course its difficult not to fall into the trap when things are hot, given the level of violence that women are subjected to here and in the world in general i could have long ago made up my mind to hate men. Personally, i've found that in taking every person for who they are i can count a great group of guys amoung those who make my life better.

[Zuki-X]

whoa!!!!  Yo that was deep josie.  I'm feelin you on dat.

[indestructibleman]

wow, just joined, thought very cool a gs site, but reading the kickoff to this topic string i was really appalled. Violence is a human traite and not the providence of one religion or culture, to make blanket statements about how all Moslems are this or that is to tar yourself with the same brush of  intolerance.  that you are outraged about killing, about individuals being denied basic freedoms, that is the right inpulse but where you've carried that is way off base. Don't you see in making Moslems the enemy because they are Moslem you legitimize what you seem to detest--the idea that one who doesnt hold the same beliefs is wrong and not deserving of respect, of life.  Of course its difficult not to fall into the trap when things are hot, given the level of violence that women are subjected to here and in the world in general i could have long ago made up my mind to hate men. Personally, i've found that in taking every person for who they are i can count a great group of guys amoung those who make my life better.

oh look.  another pansy liberal who wants to give everything away to people who don't work and let the terrorists kill us all rather than hurt their feelings.

that type of well-thought out, even-handed reasoning will get you nowhere, newbie.

oh, and welcome to the board.

cheers,
will  

[Jake D]

Joerocker embraces all the tenets of hypocrisy.  He is very comfortable with this notion and gladly hurdles his own flaws to reach the flaws of others.  

The plank in his eye may be blinding him.

[Anonymous]

When a people OPENLY declare they WANT YOU GONE, you do NOTHING?

I just wanted to get that straight.  So, lets say in Germany, Hitler declared he wanted the world and he wanted all but "his" kind exterminated, we were to do nothing?

That IS what you are saying.  

I'm saying STOP the Muslims in their tracks BEFORE they have a chance to ruin the entire world for EVERYONE.  They'd be THRILLED to have a world in shambles.  A world thrust back to a time thousands of years ago.  A few well placed nukes could certainly do that.  It would sure end our way of life.

You call it intolerance to not "embrace" or "accept" a religion who wants everyone but themselves gone.  I call it common sense!

You DON'T know these people.  Any you meet in AMERICA are not the REAL Muslims.  The "radical" Muslims are the REAL Muslims.  You NEED to go to their home country to find them!

[indestructibleman]

if any muslims in america are not real muslims, why should we worry?  if all the dangerous muslims are in their own countries, i'm content to let them stay there.

when people openly declare that they want, say, all mexicans and blacks gone, i sit back and say, "well, it's their constitutional right to say that."  when they start amassing weapons, i say, "well, that's their constitutional right, too, but could the police please keep an eye on them?"  (something they don't need the abuses of the Patriot Act to do).


cheers,
will