PC's or Macs? Gates or Jobs? Whattaya think?

[dbNnc]

I can access the gstwin message boards fine on this Dell (obviously) but when I try to access the message boards on my eMac, all I get is a blank window. I've tried Safari, Firefox and IE and get the same result with all: nothing. Cookies and Java enabled, disabled, same result.

Any ideas what the problem might be?

[thirdman]

The best system is the one that lets you get your work done.  If it is WinDoze: great.  sMAC: wonderful.  Eunuchs: dandy.  Timex-Sinclair: good on ya.  TRS-80: you da man.

For me and my workplace, it is Windoze XP all around, with a single sMac.

[dionysus]

Probably due more to
a) vastly more Unix and Windows servers out there, making them a much more compelling target for hackers.
b) Mac being easier to set up securely if you don't want to do much with it (plug and play); i.e. if you have a novice admin, they'll cause less damage with a Mac server.

Wow. RG, I'm rather disapointed that you actually believe A. That argument has been used for years by windows proponents against Linux, and has always been flawed in one major way: its not true. Now, I haven't looked into Mac but there's one easy way to discredit (not disprove) that assumption. Basically, for years Linux has hosted many more web pages than windows (70% vs 20%, netcraft). Now, what is more attractive to attack? Then, based on attrition's web defacement statistics windows takes over 60%.

The issue isn't what crackers look for. Every OS has holes. However, you have two approaches to patching them. Most software running on Linux will be patched and released a few days after the exploit is known, while MS tries to hide their holes and patch them monthly to semi-annually. The second approach would work, if noone else could find the holes by themselves. However, thats not the case so it just gives crackers a longer window of opportunity.

Anyhow, I admin a linux cluster, some servers and a lab of Windows, OS X, Linux and IRIX machines used for bioinformatics and chemical genomics research. Every machine (aside from the IRIX box) runs Linux, PCs dual boot Windows, Macs dual boot OS X. My main workstation is a G4 running Debian.

At home, I have a homebuilt PC running Debian and two iBooks. I think OS X is a great tool for a desktop. Its basically no work, but always works. iBooks have issues but, so does every laptop. AppleCare is definatly worth the money. The only problem I've had with our laptops in the last 3years was a power cord our dog chewed. I called apple, they had a replacement at our door the next day. But, always deal with apple directly, the local "authorized service" shops suck. My work iBook has been dropped from 4+ feet high at least 6 times (yeah, and they let me work with expensive equipment, why?) and works fine.

[dionysus]

I can access the gstwin message boards fine on this Dell (obviously) but when I try to access the message boards on my eMac, all I get is a blank window. I've tried Safari, Firefox and IE and get the same result with all: nothing. Cookies and Java enabled, disabled, same result.

Any ideas what the problem might be?

1) look for another phpbb running the same software and see if that's it.
2) can you get to the gstwins main page? if not, you probably can't access the server its on
3) try viewing the source of a page to see if its getting the page and just mucking up the rendering
4) user error?

If you really want to have some fun, open up a terminal and type:
telnet www.gstwins.com 80
GET /forum/ HTTP/1.1
Host: www.gstwins.com
<blank line>

And see what it spits out.

I've browsed it with Safari and Firefox on OS X.3 just fine. My bet is that you (for some reason) can't connect to the server.

[Mr.7]

Answer this:
All of our computers are PCs arn't they, no matter what brand made them.

I mean, PC stands for "Personal Computer" and we are using these computers for personal use.

[Badger]

Answer this:
All of our computers are PCs arn't they, no matter what brand made them.

I mean, PC stands for "Personal Computer" and we are using these computers for personal use.

So, what would you call a workstation exclusively for professional use?

[Mr.7]

A "Professional Computer"

This means no posting on GStwin.com because that is not you job now is it?

[RVertigo]

So, what would you call a workstation exclusively for professional use?

I think you would call it semantics...

PC is a generally accepted term for a micro-computer (aka personal computer...  not a main-frame, mini-computer, etc.) that is not a MAC.

The "Personal" part doesn't refer to the owner or use of the machine, rather the number of users...  PCs were one person per, rather than being a dumb/smart terminal linked to a server...  Yes, I know multiple people can use them but PC is a legacy term...  Get over it...

To most people it's MAC, PC, other...

As an example, you can run Lye-Nux on a PC, MAC, mini-computer, etc...  As long as the kernel is compiled for it.

[Badger]

PC is a generally accepted term for a micro-computer (aka personal computer...  not a main-frame, mini-computer, etc.) that is not a MAC.

Right, a PC is generally considered any descendent of the brand-named IBM PC from whence the design originated.  UNIX folks like to refer to their computers as "workstations" (or, affectionately: "Pizza Boxes") so as to not confuse them with anything that might be considered a toy, and helps them justify the obscene amount that they paid for it.  In professional circles, Macs are typically referred to as "door stops", "boat anchors", "this f&*&ing thing" or other similarly endearing term.  Unless it's OSX, of course...then it's referred to as "UNIX".

[jen_]

I've been throwing around a mac PowerBook G3 (lombard) for a little over 5 years.  I've swapped in a bigger hard drive, and all the ram it can hold.  Had to replace the logic board about 6 months ago, but that's it.  I love that old thing.  I run Office, IE,  Illustrator, Photoshop, CorelDraw Suite, iTunes, and Diablo2, and thats about all it can handle, but that's enough for me.  I have a PC on my desk at home and work now, mostly because to get a new Mac I'd have to move up to OSX, so there's the cost of the mac (cha-ching) _plus_ the cost of all new software. ug.

[Mr.7]

Go Atari!

[natedawg120]

Go Atari!

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[natedawg120]

Well soon enough the only difference between MACs and PCs is going to be one runs Windows and the other runs some form of MAC OS over Unix.  The hardware is going to be the same......

Edit: theres an funny concept, a mac unning windows or visa versa.

[Mr.7]

Your all nerds, stop talking about computers and go for a ride on your GS

If I had insurence, that is what I would be doing right now

[Badger]

Edit: theres an funny concept, a mac unning windows or visa versa.

I take it you've never seen this:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx

[sys49152]

..or this :

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

I use Win2K and XP at work, where I really have no choice (to some extent) on what technology and platform we use for our clients.  

Since about 1998 I've been using linux at home.  First to share my internet connection and to provide a cheap firewall solution, and then eventually as my desktop machine.  It wasn't easy though, and my wife still refuses to use it (she runs XP on her laptop).

At home, I have a homebuilt PC running Debian...

 Once you "apt-get", you can never go back..

[Jazzzzz]

I've been thoroughly unimpressed with OSX in the lab environments at skewl.  All of the lab Macs are either the new flat panel iMacs or G5 towers, and they are incredibly slow to boot, frequently decide they can't talk to the print server, etc.  However, I have a feeling that it's more the way they're set up to handle logins and profiles and the like than it is the OS itself.

Additionally, Keychain keeps popping up and asking for passwords when you use Safari, and the users are unable to turn it off.  Whenever it tries to load, Safari hangs for a good 20 seconds.

I've never had these problems on a single-user OSX machine, so it's gotta be the setup.  Even so, I'm not impressed.  Application performance isn't so great, either.

The lab's XP machines are always snappy, and the PCs that are running it were less expensive -- and that's my biggest gripe with Apple.  Equivalent hardware costs more because they have a monopoly on it.

As far as the video/photo/sound editing == Mac comment goes, it's a crock.  You can do every one of those things on a PC just as well as you can on a Mac depending on what software you use.  Mac does have some of the best software for those tasks, though - Logic and Final Cut Pro are pretty damned sweet compared to their PC equivalents.

I have been doing IT admin and support for the past 10 years, and both platforms have come a long way.  MacOS up to version 9 was just as unstable and poorly cobbled together as early versions of Windows, which didn't really get decent until Win2K, with Windows XP being by far the best version out so far.  Microsoft's server OS's are notoriously unstable and riddled with security holes (which can also be said of the desktop OSes, obviously) but there are security holes in OSX too.

Linux is not ready for prime time as a general-use desktop OS yet, and it never will be until OO.org or KOffice stop sucking and more software is available for the end user.  System administration can still be baffling as well.  And X needs to die off/be replaced with a decent windowing system.  As a server OS, it's great -- I've seen multi-year uptimes on Linux boxes that blow every other non-*nix OS out of the water.  The various propietary flavors of *nix can offer that kind of stability too, but then you're back to running on expensive hardware and paying for licenses again, which is what makes Linux so great -- it's free, and runs on almost anything.

Anyway, back on topic.  Overall, I think Windows is still head and shoulders above OSX simply due to the amount of software available on the platform (that you don't have to run in a virtual machine, which is a total kludge) and the choices available in the hardware to run it on.  Apple makes some great products, but they are targeted at a niche of the market that is willing to pay more for a clean design and "ease of use" (which is a myth these days).

[dbNnc]

[/quote]1) look for another phpbb running the same software and see if that's it.
2) can you get to the gstwins main page? if not, you probably can't access the server its on
3) try viewing the source of a page to see if its getting the page and just mucking up the rendering
4) user error? Wink[/quote]

I can connect to gstwin.com and all parts of it except the message board.
I don't recall all the details of the source but it didn't have the rendering; just the basics -- created by Front Page, called a script, etc., but no php code.
I tried the board at phpbb.com and got it. The gstwin.com board is the only board I've ever had any problem with.

[The Buddha]

Yea Dionsyus is right on the $$$ ... all the real info (money and medical records types not message boards and personal use crap) is on Unix derivatives ... I'd say it out numbers windoze 90% to 10. Also all firewalls (more like 99% in this case ) are Unix based. I know cos that's why I have a job ...  :lol:  ... a sucky, 80 hours a week, a piddly, nit picky, paper peddling job ...  :lol:
Cool.
Srinath.

[dionysus]

I've been thoroughly unimpressed with OSX in the lab environments at skewl.  All of the lab Macs are either the new flat panel iMacs or G5 towers, and they are incredibly slow to boot, frequently decide they can't talk to the print server, etc.  However, I have a feeling that it's more the way they're set up to handle logins and profiles and the like than it is the OS itself.

Well, OS X is a Unix, [almost] all of which are slow to boot. Why are the machines off? Once they fall asleep, booting will take more electricity than leaving them on over a weekend. Seriously.

The lab's XP machines are always snappy, and the PCs that are running it were less expensive -- and that's my biggest gripe with Apple.  Equivalent hardware costs more because they have a monopoly on it.

And the comment that made me post. Find a comparable machine when price shopping. Do not compare a G5 with a $499 Dell, the G5 costs more, but its a much better machine. Their laptops are an even better deal. Its like complaining an SGI Octane is expensive because it's $10k used, you get what you pay for.

As far as the video/photo/sound editing == Mac comment goes, it's a crock.  You can do every one of those things on a PC just as well as you can on a Mac depending on what software you use.  Mac does have some of the best software for those tasks, though - Logic and Final Cut Pro are pretty damned sweet compared to their PC equivalents.

Such a crock that you ended up agreeing with it

but there are security holes in OSX too.

Yes, but how many of them are in the class of "remote root exploits" that have gone unpached for months?

System administration can still be baffling as well.  And X needs to die off/be replaced with a decent windowing system.

Nothing personal, but if administration is baffling, then you really have no business doing it. And what about X do you hate so much?

"ease of use" (which is a myth these days).

Why's that a myth? In that it doesn't exist? Doesn't matter? Everything is easy to use?