Electrical guru's

[The Buddha]

OK if I rode for say 10 mins with the starter button pressed ... running  up to like 4K rpm max ... what could've fried ... starter ?? starter relay ?? switches ?? Cos somehow the blooming virago did that on the way back from work today, and I noticed it 1/2 way ... then I decided I needed to be home and I can fix it, and probably its already frocked ... so I came home ...
The bike now doesn't turn over when I hit the start button, but I do get like 10.2 volts at the starter ... between its lead and ground ... Killed battery what else ...
Interested in electrical aspect only, mechanical (clutch, idlers, springs, and the freaking starter solenoid and slider rod all are going to get examined ...
BTW on a bloody virago 1100 ... I didn't ride with start button pressed, something internal fried and did that ... I just rode it cluelessly ... till I dropped to like 10mph and heard it grinding ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[Bob Broussard]

Sounds like the starter solenoid shorted out.
My Ducati did that. I hit the starter button and the starter wouldn't turn off.
Didn't notice it with the motor running.

[Recreational_Anxiety]

Did you check the voltage right at the battery?  If it's 10.2 V at the battery, then one of the plates is dead.

[The Buddha]

Sounds like the starter solenoid shorted out.
My Ducati did that. I hit the starter button and the starter wouldn't turn off.
Didn't notice it with the motor running.

These vibey motors are rather vague feeling when it comes to motor internals, If this had happened with the Maxim or my eliminator I'd have noticed it in a sec, OK might have still not been able to decipher it and continued to run it, but atleast I'd have heard/felt it. I didn't hear this or feel it till I slowed to get my exit. I drop to like 15 and go what the freaking hell is scraping under the thing ... and there it was.
Solenoid is the one that engages the funky idler on this bike, it seems to be working ... I hear it clack. I am more thinking I fried the starter. For 10.2 volts, wouldn't it make an attempt to turn over ?? maybe not under such a massive load.
Battery plate can burn to a crisp ... the whole damn thing can fry itself, its the least of my problems at this point ...  :lol:  ... Heck I have 3-4 of them things lying about. No problem if that is busted. I am looking at a couple hundred bucks in mechanical damage anyway at a minimum.
Cool.
Srinath.

[ktrim]

usually the bushings in the starter will burn up,  they are not designed to be spu at high rpms.  they get real hot the sieze to the shaft when it cools down.  also the overide cluctch on the out put shaft/gear (if it has one-usually a ball bearing and spring contraption that stops the starter from spining backwards if there is a backfire) might have cooked itself.  usually just the bushings stuck to the shaft.  rip the starter apart,  clean the bushings up with some emery cloth, grease and re-assemble.  also check the brushes

[lumpoffire]

I remember an article by Joe Minton in the 80's re: Virago starter problems.  Supposedly a ring gear inside the starter motor comes loose, and spins along with the smaller gear inside it.  The solution was a shim kit made by Yamaha, or, welding the ring gear in place.

Just my $.02
Dan

[John Bates]

My flat out guess is that the starter relay contacts welded shut.  

:dunno:

[The Buddha]

Relay may be fried closed ... yes ...
The 80's starter with shim kit is a different vintage virago. 88 and later I believe even 85 and later (1000 and up) are different, non shimmable, but improved starters.
The brushes, the idler, the solenoid etc are all getting checked out tommorow. Lets see ... Worried about metal in the oil as well ... but they have a magnet right under there as well as a shelf type set up to catch it ... hopefully oil change will fix it, like my goat's episode.
Cool.
Srinath.

[starwalt]

My flat out guess is that the starter relay contacts welded shut.

This is what I guess and John got it first. On industrial relay/contactors, the contacts are often replaceable and/or serviceable. For bikes you just replace the entire, usually sealed shut, item.

[The Buddha]

Too much chrome ... shiny crap in the pic ...

http://www.gstwins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10119/normal_P0008644.jpg
http://www.gstwins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10119/normal_P0008645.jpg

OK here is the starter pics ... and guess what ... clean as a whistle ... so after 20 mins of hearind the worst noises ever, thinking my idler gear is disintegrating and spewing shrapnel into the oil, whihc is being caught by the oil punp chain and getting crammed into the oil etc ... I open it resolving to see carnage, twisted, and shredded metal ... and there it is ... nothing ... just as it was 300 miles ago when I put in a new gasket ...
OK I'd say I am a new found fan of Yamaha, truth is anything made in the 80's was made this way ... GS too ...  :lol: ... I remember after that episode of goats, mine was a few oil changes out before I realised, nothing had happened inspite of that tornado inside it with rotor pieces flying everywhere.
Cool.
Srinath.

[starwalt]

..OK here is the starter pics ... and guess what ... clean as a whistle ... so after 20 mins of hearind the worst noises ever, thinking my idler gear is disintegrating and spewing shrapnel into the ...

So the verdict so far is - no busted starter clutch causing Starwalt's, but the starter motor still doesn't turn over?

With all this apart, did you try to see if the starter motor would turn on command of the starter switch? Would it turn by hand?

[The Buddha]

The starter was toast ... used 12 volt straight across it ... nothing ... then opened it, and saw magnets barely wanting to hold on to a nail ... barely ... the good ones will hold on to a sledge hammer ... or a hammer atleast ... I yanked one out from my friends 750 virago ... 82 ... it has that cool starter that needs shimming and has its own set of issues ... and I am going to transfer the tip over from mine cos that's all that is different ... and drop that in.
Cool.
Srinath.

[starwalt]

The starter was toast ... used 12 volt straight across it ... nothing ... then opened it, and saw magnets barely wanting to hold on to a nail ... barely ... the good ones will hold on to a sledge hammer ... or a hammer atleast ...

Now that's interesting. Magnets don't just wake up one day and decide to not be a magnet (Note: this rule does not apply to male or female humans between the ages of 18 and 22 years old).
Magnets lose their magnetism due to heat, reverse magnetism, or physical impact.
Very strange...

[The Buddha]

The current through the thing made heat, and the motor heat also gets through ... must have fried the thing ... Coil was intact ... as you can imagine the coil is similar to the alternator coil, which can handle 70+ volts and over 250 watts for loooooong periods of time ... OK fine so can the rotor magnet in the alternator ... but These died ... coil looked great ... anyway I have a swap in replacement ... 82 750 starter ... had to swap out the driver part ... but that done its identical ...
Cool.
Srinath.