I know this is going to open up a big ass can of worms, but.

[DarkCyDE]

Ok I marked everything that came off hose wise when I took the tank off to paint it. painted it and some of the hoses but it still seemd pretty str8 forward to me.....that was, until not getting it started over 4 hours of messing with it. and then making the mistake of looking threw the vacuume hose routing diagram and going threw the seach function. I have an 89 that is a california model. I seem to see every where to hook it up "this way" unless its a california model. this doesnt help much
I checked and double checked. the fuel lines are hooked up 100% right. where the confusion seems to be is the top tbar between the carbs. it shows it open to the air. mine was coneected (not very well) to a tap on the center of the bottom of the tank. and it was very crushed between the tank tap and the top of the carb to start with. So I doubt it was doing much of anything. never the less my bike isnt starting anymore.

What that hose for?
can it just be open air?
if so what do I do with the one on the bottom center of the tank?
why does my bike not run?
help!!!!!!



Mike

[Smiley]

I cant see what hose you are talking about  unless its the surge hose that should go to the charcoal canister, then there is a second that goes from the canister to the carbs with a T piece. Its part of the evapourator control system in the tank for Californian models.
Thats about as far as I know, could you put up a pic. perhaps.

good luck

[DarkCyDE]

I would love to but its about a 2 hour walk from where it was being painted.
let me see if I maybe able to explain what I seen

the carb has two tees between them. the bottom is where the fuel goes in.
the top was a short 4 inch hose going from the middle of the carbs from the tee to right over the carb on the shifter side to the bottom of the tank. the one that goes to the cali emissions tank under the batt is coming from goes to a tube coming out of the tank on the other side ( away from the petcock) bottom of the tank. I know from checking the routing diagram that the fuel part is hooked up right between the two petcocks so what I dont know is what that one is that comes from the tee on the top of the carbs to the bottom of the tank and if its even needed. I notice on the newer models that its just hooked to some kind of air pod?

donno, I do know that it ran great before I painted the bike. now it wont start at all.

thanks
Mike

[Jazzzzz]

That's the carb overflow hose - it's routed to the tank on Cali models.  Yes, it can be left open to the air; I have a Cali model, and mine runs fine set up like that.

[DarkCyDE]

So.....what? Just plug the tank side?
and I am guessing this doesnt have anything to do with the fact that I no longer have any running transportation?

if that is all I have to do to simplify things then I will take the top tee and run it off on a hose to the back if the bike and I guess plug the tap on the bottom of the tank that it was hooked to?

thanks
and if anyone can chime in on why I dont having a running bike anymore and have to use the shoe leather express, that would be great too.
Will post pics of the bike in a while

mike

[DerekNC]

Did you remember to turn the tank petcock back on? A lot of people have made that mistake.

[Hugh Jardon]

You say you've just painted the gas tank; did you also paint the gas CAP, or ONLY the gas TANK?

OK, first thing to do is, you should check to see if the motorcycle will start and run with the gas cap OFF. Remove the gas cap, and listen carefully as you do so. Can you hear a slight "woosh" sound, as if you've just broken the vacuum seal on a can of coffee (or whatever)? If so, you've most likely found the problem.

Do this; remove the gas cap, and set the fuel switch to PRIme, so the gas will (should) be able to flow all the way to the float bowls without any problems. Now, try to start the engine.

If it runs with the gas cap OFF, but dies and then won't restart with the gas cap ON, it means you have plugged the fuel tank vent holes that allow air (atmospheric pressure) into the tank, which then pushes down on the fuel. That pressure from the air allows the fuel to flow in a gravity-feed system, which is how most motorcycles work. You'll have to check the air vent holes, which probably got plugged when you painted the tank; look carefully around the fuel-filler neck, where the gas cap sits. I'm going by memory now, so don't quote me on this (my GS is not here for me to double-check this); right below the fuel filler cap, you SHOULD see four (or maybe six) holes, evenly spaced around the hole where you put the gas nozzle during a fill-up. They're probably clogged with paint; find something to clean them with, and you just might have solved your problems.

If that ISN'T the problem, you could have closed the FUEL-TANK valve, the one located on the bottom of the fuel petcock.

Check this diagram:

http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/assets/schematics/Suzuki/SU0083_039.gif

Look at number 9 (that is the fuel petcock) CLOSELY; right below the mounting bracket, you'll see a valve built into the bottom, right ABOVE where the fuel hose spigots. If the screwdriver slot not VERTICAL, exactly like the diagram, get a flat-blade and turn it until it is. If the slot is horizontal, or less-than completely vertical, it means fuel flow from the tank to the carbs will be obstructed.

Let us know what you find out from checking these things, and in the meantime, I'll try to think of what ELSE you should check, in case you haven't already found the solution to your problems.

Good luck; keep us posted.

[DarkCyDE]

wow, thanks for all the responses. I will be checking a few of these when I get a ride out to my bike tomorrow. here is what I can respond to

I didnt paint any thing around the filler neck as I taped it off with duct tape.
didnt know there were holes there but I did tape the whole area at the bottom of the inset of where the cap mounts so the whole bottom area was taped off.

To the idea of the top petcock, I tried it both ways when I put the tank on.
I remembered it was there because after draining as much of the gas out of the tank, I turned it off to keep any that wouldnt come out from getting all over the place. ( so yes I knew it was there)
it started one or two times but it was not running right and would shut off if I didnt stay on the gas. but by then end of the night it wouldnt eve turn over. and I killed the battery. I was lucky that his neighbor had a car and could jump it but even with a strong battery behind it, it still wouldnt start and the tips of the plugs were white and didnt seem to have any gas on them as if no fuel was getting to them.

that is really about all I have, I will double check to see if the top petcock is not perfectly set, but I am pretty sure it is
Im starting to think as it was sorta running that its maybe clogged jets??
donno, not a carb expert by any means. If it is do I need new bowl gaskets if I take the bowls off? If so I will need to get a ride to get some.


thanks again and if anyone else has any ideas about it, I am more than happy to get what ever help I can get. going to post the pics of the bike now. will have a post for it in a few mins

thanks agian to everyone

mike

[Hugh Jardon]

OK, now that we know all that, I have to ask the obvious question; did you FLUSH the gas tank with clean water before you put everything back together? If not, you've probably got a TON of crud, sediment, and sludge from the crap pockets obstructing fuel flow through the tank petcock now.

The BEST solution is to drain the tank, remove the petcock, and manually inspect it. Don't forget to clean the fuel screen while you're at it, and then flush the HELL out of the tank. Flush it from the TOP, then turn it over, and BACK-flush it from the fuel petcock opening. Shake it like English nannies shake American babies; you want to do EVERYTHING you can to get the GUNK out of the tank, including the crap pockets, or odds are good that you'll be going through this AGAIN, which would SUCK!

If you're not POSITIVE the tank is COMPLETELY clean, flush it AGAIN, until it IS clean! This is on you now; once you get the petcock and tank ready, hook it up, fill it, and then check to see if you've got GOOD fuel flow all the way to the carb float bowls. Once you KNOW everything is working OK, your current problems should be HISTORY!

Keep us posted; I'm sure a lot of people will be lurking here to see how this turns out for you...

[DarkCyDE]

Thanks much. I will flush that puppy tomorrow. after using water what do I do to get the little bits of water that will probably be left behind afterwards?
or does that little bit of water matter?

thanks

Mike

[Lukewarm Wilson]

wash it with metho to get the water out you DO NOT want any water in your tank  

[DarkCyDE]

I hate to be stupid but what is Metho?

a type of alcohol?

[Hugh Jardon]

You're making good progress with this, Mike; you just have to be willing to do a thorough job and make the entire project a success. First, be sure that the air vent holes in the fuel filler neck are not clogged with goo from the duct tape.

Flush the tank well; you really have to take this seriously. Even if this doesn't solve the problem, at least you will know you have done a good job, and you should be able to avoid headaches from this type of problem in the future.

Once the tank is clean, prop it up so that any water left inside will run AWAY from the crap pockets. Use your best judgement on how to do this, but be CAREFUL about damaging that new soft paint. This will probably be the best time to inspect the inside of the tank with a flashlight. If you see rust or corrosion, you'll know that the tank will need Kreeming next time the bike is off the road. You can search the forum for more information on how to use Kreem. Kreem is a product which will put a plastic-type coating on the inside of the tank, which will effectively seal the inside and protect it from further rust and corrosion.

A great way to get water out of a tank is to stick one end of an old, CLEAN, LINT-FREE (shake it before you use it) terrycloth handtowel inside the fuel filler neck, and leave the rest of it sticking out. The towel will act as a wick for the water, which will migrate down the towel and out of the tank. Doing this will allow you to set the tank upside down, and that way, you can install the fuel petcock while the tank is still draining.

Don't forget; DON'T RUSH this. There is no reason to risk damaging the new paint while you do this; take your time, make sure the tank is well-supported in every position, and let gravity and the towel work to your advantage.

Once you have the petcock cleaned and installed, make SURE the petcock fuel valve is open, and double-check all gaskets and bolts for proper installation; you DON'T want a leak when you put everything back together.

When you're ready, put the tank back on the bike, and be sure to get the hoses routed properly. Double-check for pinched lines, cables, and wires under the tank before you bolt everything down. You don't want to create a NEW problem, then have to un-do all of your hard work.

Put in at least ONE and not more than TWO gallons of gas; there is no sense in FILLING the tank until you have test-ridden the bike and are POSITIVE that everything works as expected. If you have to drain the tank again, you'll be glad you only put in two gallons.

When you're ready to start the engine, DRAIN THE CARB FLOAT BOWLS; otherwise, you will never know if the gas is able to flow from the tank to the carbs. Then, put the fuel switch in the PRIme position, and CHECK the carb float-bowls to make sure that gas is flowing into both of them. Don't ignore this step! If you have gas in one bowl, find out why it isn't flowing to the other one. If you don't have any gas in EITHER bowl, then the problem HAS to be common to BOTH carbs, and you'll have to check all valves, fittings, connectors, and hoses for pinches, bad connections, and leaks.

By this time, you'll know whether or not you've got everything hooked up properly. Hopefully, you'll be back on the road.

Last but not least, just put a FEW (not more than three) ounces of rubbing alcohol in the gas tank, and THEN top off the tank at a gas station. The fresh gas shooting into the tank will mix everything together, and the alcohol will bind with the water molecules, which will then be burned in the combustion chamber as you ride.

Here is part of what I wrote in reply to someone with a similar problem yesterday...

****************************************

...there is ALWAYS some water in the bottom of your gas tank, from simple condensation. Think about it; the gas tank heats up during the day, just from the presence of sunlight, and when the tank cools down at night, condensation forms on the INSIDE of the tank, then trickles down into the fuel, and eventually settles to the bottom of the tank, because water is heavier than gas. Of course, that helps explain the reason for the notorious rusted-out crap pockets on the GS5 gas tanks.

One basic way to reduce the amount of condensation that occurs in your tank is to simply keep the tank full of gas. The less air space there is inside the tank, the less room there is for condensation to form.

The good news is, you can add a little Dri-Gas to the fuel tank on occasion. The alcohol in the Dri-Gas will mix with the water in the gas, and that will make the water at least semi-combustible. Every time you gas up, the new gas shooting into the tank mixes everything together, and until the water in the tank has time to settle to the bottom again, you're actually burning slightly diluted gasoline.

I've run motorcycles down to Reserve before, then drained the tank into a clear glass bottle. After a while, the crud and sediment from the tank begins to settle to the bottom of the bottle, and it is easy to see the gas floating on top of the water. As you can guess, that's another good reason to clean the screen on your fuel petcock occasionally; it gives you an opportunity to drain and flush the gas tank, so you can monitor the tank crud / rust / sludge / water situation.

****************************************

Good luck; keep us posted.

[Anonymous]

You DO relize what they're referring to when they ask if you turned the petcock back on right?  On the other side on the petcock there is that "screw head" looking thing that you turned off the entire petcock with.  Make sure that is turned on (you have to lift up the tank and come in from the other side to get to it) and then turn on the regular "on-off-res" side.

[DarkCyDE]

You DO relize what they're referring to when they ask if you turned the petcock back on right?  On the other side on the petcock there is that "screw head" looking thing that you turned off the entire petcock with.  Make sure that is turned on (you have to lift up the tank and come in from the other side to get to it) and then turn on the regular "on-off-res" side.

Yes the tank petcock. used it when I took the tank off to paint it. turned it back on when I was putting the tank back on. yup. Thanks tho.

on a quick aside. I am assuming that the petcock gasket needs to be replaced in the draining of the tank and cleaning of the petcock filter. Because of this it will be another day (maybe more if they dont have the gasket in stock) as they are closed on Mondays :-(
So Still waiting to enjoy something other than walking.......
Love your avatar Joe
I was hoping to be the most hated. Guess I will have to work harder at it, aye