Just Curious

[My Name Is Dave]

The post in the general section about "Stupid MoFo Cagers" and some of the responses got me to thinking...

How is it that the people who do not support the war are unpatriotic? And why do people shove it in our faces when a soldier dies, saying "they died for you!" f%$k that, I didn't want them there in the first place. It's like if my girlfriend went on the Real World and hooked up with a cast member like all the other hoochies do and she runs back to me and says "well I only did it because you got me on that show." shaZam!, I told you not to go, so don't blame me.

If anyone should be getting the "they died for you" speech, it should be our Commander-in-Chimp. He's the brilliant mind who decided to send my cousins and some friends to a country to fight a poorly-thought-out war with no exit strategy and no real goals.

I think I am a patriot because I love my country and the people who live here. However, I am also an occupant of the planet Earth, and thus I love people from other countries. Let's not be bullies and walk around with our big balls and tell other countries how they should live; obviously we aren't doing such a great job here, with all the poverty, crime, and blatant lack of education.

And the argument my f%$king pin-headed Republican roommate gives me wants to make my head explode. When I ask why we are fighting, he says to liberate the people of Iraq from the tyranny they lived in. When I asked why people who are not fighting end up getting killed or captured in Iraq, he says because you never know who is the enemy there, so they all are the enemy. What the f%$k? Are you doing this to hurt or harm them, because you just defended each side.

The point is this: the opponents of the war are not the ones to preach to; give the speech to the moron who put the soldiers over there.

Sorry, but it just kills me.

[hulap0pr]

Bottom line: One can love America, not support the war but yet wish the best for the troops. An American need not buy the party line to still love his/her country, and not supporting the war doesn't mean you don't support the kids we send over there to do our government's bidding.

Problem is, our government has done such a great job of linking support for the war with support for the troops that it's nearly impossible to voice an opinion like this without being branded anti-America.

Watch. I bet I get slammed.

[CasiUSA]

Bottom line: One can love America, not support the war but yet wish the best for the troops. An American need not buy the party line to still love his/her country, and not supporting the war doesn't mean you don't support the kids we send over there to do our government's bidding.

Problem is, our government has done such a great job of linking support for the war with support for the troops that it's nearly impossible to voice an opinion like this without being branded anti-America.

Watch. I bet I get slammed.

No slamming from here- I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.  

[pandy]

+1  

No slamming from here- I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.  

[My Name Is Dave]

Bottom line: One can love America, not support the war but yet wish the best for the troops. An American need not buy the party line to still love his/her country, and not supporting the war doesn't mean you don't support the kids we send over there to do our government's bidding.

Problem is, our government has done such a great job of linking support for the war with support for the troops that it's nearly impossible to voice an opinion like this without being branded anti-America.

Watch. I bet I get slammed.

Exactly, and that's what I'm saying. Of course I want the kids to make it home safe; I'd just rather they never left in the first place.

"Kids." I'm 25, watch out for this creaky old dude!

Dave  

[ConanLloyd]

No slams here, you pretty much summed it up!

[Cal Price]

There is nothing unpatriotic about disagreeing with your Government/President/Tribal Chief/King/Prime Minister/Village Elders/Commisars or whatever on a deeply held matter of principle.

[RVertigo]

I love this country, I support our troops, and I think we're fighting the wrong war.

I have friends and family in the military...  I wish they weren't in the military, but I'm glad that they're willing to make the sacrifice for the rest of us.

War is hell.

[My Name Is Dave]

A proper military/police force? By whose standards? Oh, ours...right, we are kicking ass there, we should impose our rules onto them.

And these are, a lot of the times, kids with no options. The recruiters don't say "you're going to learn to kill, and you may die." It's all promises of an education, lines about one weekend a month and one week a year, etc. I'd be willing to guess that a lot of bullshit was fed to them before the truth was discovered.

As for my cousin, he went to West Point, so he's just shaZam!-balls crazy.

Dave  

[pantablo]

Bottom line: One can love America, not support the war but yet wish the best for the troops. An American need not buy the party line to still love his/her country, and not supporting the war doesn't mean you don't support the kids we send over there to do our government's bidding.

Problem is, our government has done such a great job of linking support for the war with support for the troops that it's nearly impossible to voice an opinion like this without being branded anti-America.

Watch. I bet I get slammed.

wow. that college education is paying off...

 +1

[My Name Is Dave]

So you're telling me none of these kids learned their history of past wars?  They didn't know about World War 1 + 2, Korean War, or the Vietnam War?  Seriously, it's not like they never knew what the military was about.  

Granted we've gotten very liberal and relaxed on what the military does...but the military's sole purpose is still war, that's why every person who joins the military is taught how to follow orders and kill people.

Also, as far as Iraq, we're only there to keep order and make Iraq self sufficient.  But fact is, we've got everything against us.  Our enemy is an unconventional force in an urban environment which doesn't even remotely follow the geneva convention.  Meanwhile, we're a conventional force bound by the geneva convention.  

We wouldn't loose so many soldiers if we just dropped the geneva convention and let the special forces do what they do best.

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[callmelenny]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

Ralph, why do you hate America?!

[hulap0pr]

It's stupid to want to leave because our troops are dying.  Like I said, our troops signed up knowing full well the risk they could be in, that was their decision.

Kids sign up for the military knowing full well they might have to go off to war someday. No argument there.

The problem is, when they sign up, they also trust that their government isn't going to send them overseas to fight in a war that has little bearing on their country's security. And that trust, as far as I'm concerned, has been violated.

[My Name Is Dave]

Kids sign up for the military knowing full well they might have to go off to war someday. No argument there.

Right...that's like saying that kids join the football team knowing that they'll have to put on pads and get hit. They join with dreams of whipped-cream-laiden maidens strutting around their houses and giving them sexy times whenever they want. Then the truth hits, and the truth in this case is 280 pounds of man, man!

Dave  

[davipu]

The problem is, when they sign up, they also trust that their government isn't going to send them overseas to fight in a war that has little bearing on their country's security. And that trust, as far as I'm concerned, has been violated.

that trust was lost in '68,  as one of today's kids we do know that we are going to be fighting oil wars for atleast the next 20 years.  so anyone who signs up claiming that he didn't know is a liar.

[indestructibleman]

i think hulap0pr hit the nail on the head there.


now, i can see the "we broke it, it's our problem now" argument.  i've pretty much always agreed with that.

however, at this point i'm not entirely sure that our presence isn't doing more harm than good.  a lot of the attacks are Iraqi insurgents who see us as an invading force.  if we left, those guys would no longer have any reason to fight.

it's also possible that our presence there is the only thing preventing the entire country being overrun by sectarian fighting.

[indestructibleman]

so anyone who signs up claiming that he didn't know is a liar.

not a liar, just a fool.  and all 18 year olds are fools (to varying degrees).

[My Name Is Dave]

f%$k that, we can't let some stupid Iraqi gain control of Iraq, that's stupid.

[ajgs500]

All of these points about we cant leave until we fix, insurgents, oil are obviously things our leadership didn't think about before going to war.  It is hard to be diplomatic with people who we share very little in common with in an idealogical sense.  The lack of planning with this war and the complete arrogance is quite disturbing.

[My Name Is Dave]

f%$k that, we can't let some stupid Iraqi gain control of Iraq, that's stupid.

Oh, that was sarcasm, by the way.  :kiss:


Dave