Into corner too hot.

[buzz]

Ok I am a newb. I rode bikes years ago, but just got back in the swing of things 500 miles ago.

I was doing some mild agressive riding, meaning beyond my skill level, and I came onto a corner that I know well. It is a smooth slightly decreasing radius turn.

As I said in the heading, I took it too hot. I was able to bring it out, but I scared myself to death doing it.


In my MX-5 I have serveral options for this kind of situation. I can let off the throttle, even use my left foot on the brake a little, and upset the rear to change the yaw of the car. It is not fast, but you come out looking like a hero. I am decent at getting with this type of machine.

For obvious reasons this does not seem like a good idea on my GS.

I know that the correct way to do is to go slower in, apex late, and power out. At the time it was a bit late for that. Better slow in than dead out.

My question is what is the best way to get out of a situation on a bike, beside taking the curve the correct way. You know ... when you know you have just screwed up.

[FFDougK]

From one newb to another...if there's room on the side of the road (i.e. a shoulder or nice grassy yard) I'd flick it upright, come to a stop, and try it again.  I've had several turns were I'd go in too slow and was wobbly but haven't yet gone in too hot that I couldn't squeeze out of it (knock on wood).

Just my thought.

[oppy00]

Unless you were really being a hero (i.e. scraping knees, footpegs, exhaust, etc.) you look through the curve more, and lean harder/farther.  I've been riding for over 4 years (never been able to get track time), I try to push myself, without dieing, and the closest I've come to scraping stuff is the toes of my boots.  Another option is what Doug suggested, if you KNOW you've got time and room to straighten up and slow WAY down or stop, it's better than pushing too hard and low siding.  Big thing is stay calm, until you're in the clear and can take off your helmet and puke on the roadside. :lol:

[davipu]

lean lean lean, and lowside. it hurts alot less than e-braking and launching yourself over the bars.

[TarzanBoy]

When I come into corners too *hot*, I do one of two things:

1. I tap the rear brake to lock the back tire, then hit the throttle hard, turn the front wheel slightly and drift alllllllll they way through that mama-jamma!  Leaving smoke and rubber all the way back out the turn!

2. I bounce HARD on the pegs/suspension, squeeze the front brake and stoppie alllllllllll the way around that sucker!  Flicking off cops and old ladies the entire way!  

I just learned to ride last week, and my first bike is a 1.4Liter Hayabusa with soft race take-offs and bling-bling chromed out fairings with a fart pipe from a riced-out civic for an exhaust!  

Disclaimer:  The preceding is only true in my imagination

[Sir Smapty]

whatever you do do not brake, unless there is a semi in the other lane, then attempt to bend in half and kiss your ass good bye.

[pandy]

Disclaimer:  The preceding is only true in my imagination

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I thought I was gonna hafta slap ya' upside the head, but I should be slapped upside the head for thinking for a second you were serious! Bwahahaha! Good one.      

[natedawg120]

lean lean lean, and lowside. it hurts alot less than e-braking and launching yourself over the bars.

 it is better to lean till you can't lean anymore and then slide.  Thats better then kissing the windshield of what might be coming around the turn.

[jake42]

i seem to remember keith code saying something in TOTW2 about it being okay to use brake in a decreasing radius turn. I'd have to look it up.  

jake

[themaffeo]

Like others have said - grit your teeth and lean.

Ever since I got my bike back from the shop something happened to me and I've been riding much more agressivly. I have since found myself in a situation like u just described many times.

I've been suprised  how far I can lean - and I still have huge chicken strips.

Here's the deal if you come in too hot:

1) Hit your front break = will crash
2) Straighten and brake = probably crash
3) Lean it over = might crash

I know it kinda sucks, there's no "magic solution" - but that's riding.

It all comes down to experience and physics.

[aaronstj]

I just completed the MSF this weekend (more on that later), and the rider coach said there's one thing to do: P & P.  Press and Pray, he called it.

[pantablo]

I wouldnt recommend a noob braking in corners but with more experience you CAN brake and pretty hard at that, in a corner. Going in too hot is usually more mental than actual physics (ie you THINK you're in too hot or you're in too hot for your comfort/skill).

if you're not scraping anything already, just LOOK through the turn as far as you can, and push on that inside bar as hard as you can. You may think you're in too hot but in reality you might have TONS more grip left on the tires. better off lowsiding trying to pull it off (best bet is you will likely pull it off) than crashing otherwise.

The key is to be smooth about it. if you are abrupt in anything you might overload the front tire and lowside prematurely.

[gsJack]

When into a corner too fast, just slow down a bit.  Front braking in a corner tends to stand it up while rear braking tends to settle the suspension much the same as giving it throttle thru the corner does.

I do a lot of trail braking into corners all the time just to keep in practice.  Both brakes into the corner and then rear braking after that if further braking is needed.  When already in too fast and deep just use some firm rear braking well short of breaking it loose and push that inside bar down firmly.

You'll be surprised how much you can slow in a corner without loosing control.  I know ya ain't supposed to do it, but I also go into blind corners faster than my sight distance will cover just to practice braking after into it.  Takes a lot of practice braking in corners to develop a good touch on the rear brake and get the most out of it.  If you wait till you need it, it won't be there.  Has to be second nature and done automatically without trying to think it thru at the last instant.

A couple of times I've gone into a blind corner too fast only to find an oncoming vehicle half into my lane.  No place for rear braking here, just do it the MSF way and stand it up and front brake hard towards the edge and then lay it back into the curve.  A definite case of where you need to yield some space to the intruder and get yourself to the edge.

I started braking in corners with the GSs, hadn't really tried it much with previous bikes.  The GS just loves to do it though.  Just develop that fine touch on the rear brake before you really need it.  I average 8-12k miles on rear brake pad life and about 20-25k miles on the fronts.

[TheGoodGuy]

GSjack, while trail braking is an awesome thing to know, it is NOT for a new rider. Someone who is yet to master the fine balance between normal and trail braking.

I suggust you this.. SLLR = Slow Look Lean and Roll. Its taught in MSF and you should use it now until you are ready to learn how to gauge speeds into a turn.

Slow down as you approach the turn (down shift if needed), look into teh turn the bike will lean along with it and once got the lean hold teh throttle at a steady level (being smooth) adjust slightly if needed and then when you are coming out of the lean you can powerup and slowly straighten out. This is past teh Apex of the turn.


I wouldnt suggest kissing the apex of the turn, its dangerous on the street, i do it, and i hate it because sometimes on a left turn my bikes on the other lane into teh turn.. and i try not to do it on blind turns.. but sometimes it happens.

Do SLLR for a while, and eventually you will learn to identify slower corners.. now by chance you run into something unexpected a long dicreasing radius turn, you can always slow down by reducing throttle and or straightening up with a little brake, but usually you are smooth enough that reducing throttle and straigtening up will get you thru that unexpected thing.

hope this helps.

[TarzanBoy]

i've already had to tail brake in a leaned turn one of my first few times out.

I already knew all the theory as to why it shouldn't be done, but the situation def called for it, so I made sure to not lock up my rear wheel and not take any more speed than I needed off.

[JamesG]

The most important thing is to NOT PANIC!

Alot of crashes by novice riders are from going into turns outside of thier "comfort zone" and they freak out and either stand the bike up or lock up on the controls and run wide/crash.

The performance envelope of a GS is alot bigger than most new riders appriciate. By keeping your head and "riding it out" you will both escape unharmed and will expand your riding abilities. Thats why I recomend ppl take track/race schools. You can learn how to do high speed cornering in a much safer enironment than on the street during an "oh shaZam!!" moment.

[davipu]

what a lowly peon....

[stingray]

I was doing some mild agressive riding, meaning beyond my skill level

beyond your skill level is "mild?"  i'd hate to think what "major" is

decreasing radius...use vanishing point technique.

if you've scared yourself, you rode over your head/above your riding abilities.  basically, left it up to luck to keep yourself upright and not skill.  luck isn't always on your side.  take it back a couple notches.

riding for years doesn't make much difference if you've been doing things wrong the entire time.  might benefit you to take a riding course.  whether it's MSF or a track school.  you can never learn enough about riding.  i've seen riders who've been at it long before i was born but couldn't take a corner worth shaZam!.

SLLR = Slow Look Lean and Roll.

it's actually slow look PRESS roll  :mrgreen:

[Hi-T]

I think you're never too newb to learn a new skill... but you always should have a good foundation  before adding to it.

Trail braking is very cool.  It will change the geometry enough, via the suspension, to pull a corner faster and tighter.  It does offer extra control in a very subtle way-- but it is an advanced skill.

Next time you're riding (in a straight line, keep the throttle on and start riding the rear brake.  You'll feel the bike "sit down" but it won't be jerky.  You shouldn't lose too much speed either.  In comparison, if you try to replicate the effect with the front brake or enginge brake, you'l feel the bike jolt - upsetting the suspension or possibly your riding position.

Also, by riding the brakes, you ensure the rear tire doesn't lock up and you minimize the transition between braking and adding throttle.  

Once you get a feel for this in a straight line, try riding a corner and you'll notice a difference.

But remember, there is a definate difference in late braking vs trail braking.  Common sense and self control will do more for your riding than any advanced technique.  

Get a good book- I like Lee Parks, Total Control

[buzz]

Thank you for your responses.

Trail braking is a skill that I understand, and use, in my car. It will take some time tp transfer the idea, but I will keep this in mind.

From what I have heard I did the right thing, after my origanal screw up. It still scared me though.

I realized, slightly braked, leaned more, then rolled on the throttle. I never left the road, or crossed the dreaded yellow line.

I'd love to take a track course, and get track time. I will plan for this soon.

Right now, well not right now,  I am practicing braking on the lonely road i live on. I am the last house.