Into corner too hot.

[Frost]

go to a parking lot and learn to lean hard and trail brake...dont' do it on the road!...

if you can't even scrape your toe in the parking lot...you are not ready to ride hard on the street...

[Gisser]

Put me in the brakes camp.  In theory the more lean angle method is the preferred course of action, but, in the real world, riders not accustomed to dragging their pegs at the track tend to have a definite lean angle comfort zone and going beyond induces fear similar to a pre-columbian sailor going over the edge of the Earth.  Because fear of an ashphalt face-plant can be detrimental to technique--like suddenly having a frozen grip on the bars, like elbows locking, like unconsciously pushing the body away from the bar instead of moving the bar forward.  It just seems like an emergency situation is not the time to rely on skills one doesn't already possess.  Reaching for the brakes is instinctive, just scrub off speed and keep steering I say.

[Badger]

Increasing lean angle is great...if you're the only vehicle on the curve.  What really worries me is the knucklehead drivers who brake sharply in the middle of decreasing radius turns.

In my normal commute (which I currently do by car), I go through a couple of 270 degree, variable radius highway interchanges with poor sight lines, and invariably I see brake lights as soon as cars in front of me get into the decreasing radius bits.  Not gently either...it always seems they're going from 50 to 20.  Never mind that (even in a car) this is a bad idea, but for a trailing motorcycle, this seems downright dangerous.  Being able to increase lean angle doesn't seem to matter much when you're heading for the tail end of a volvo/minivan/SUV/other instrument of evil.

Of course, keeping a safe distance is the answer here, but it seems optimistic to expect a signficant cushion on a 3/4 mile ramp when transitioning from highway speeds and dealing with the unpredictable behavior of poor drivers ahead.  It seems that these situations are lowsides waiting to happen (or excursions into the grass).  The MSF class stresses not decelerating in turns, but conditions don't always make that feasible.

[VersOne]

I agree with everything that has been said except the straighten out and run off the road method....thats just bad news on right hand turns (incoming traffic) and you don't always have run off on the right either. So NO!!!!

As for unloading the throttle in the middle of a turn...that a big NO!!!!! as well since doing this will shift all the weight to the front, and will result in almost the same thing has using the front brake...plus the bike won't feel grounded.

I say....lean lean lean and focuss on the exit.


Also since nobody has metioned it yet...in a decreasing radius situation, where the curve tightens up really hard, I sometimes treat it as two separate curves and DOUBLE APEX the turn.

I straighten up the bike slightly after the first lean, run to the outside of the turn and setup for the second part of the turn.

When in doubt I usually trail brake. I setup my body position for the turn, squeeze front brake slightly to shave off excess speed and while I apply maintenance throttle, I keep on the brakes a tad...
As I reach the Apex, the throttle increases as the brake decrease...two fingers on the front brake and the rest twisting the throttle..as you twist more...you brake less.

I never use my rear brake in a turn...so I can't attest to that..although the books I have read do mention taping it lightly in "racetrack" conditions.  But you need to have a pretty darn good feel of how much you can squeeze before you loose traction.

Peace out  



P.S.  As my sig indicates...I'm a stooge noob...so take my advice or leave it...

[stingray]

I average 8-12k miles on rear brake pad life and about 20-25k miles on the fronts.

may want to try using the front more as it provides more braking power.

if you can't even scrape your toe in the parking lot...you are not ready to ride hard on the street...

wow, that's like so dumb my brain hurts....

sorry but that'll put you on your ass on the street and the parking lot.

if you're scraping toe, look at how your feet are positioned.  you should never scrape toe unless you're at the limits of ground clearance.

[RVertigo]

If you're not dragging parts, you have more room to lean.

Left off the throttle, and LEAN...  If that's not enough, then KEEP LEANING!

[natedawg120]

If you're not dragging parts, you have more room to lean.

Left off the throttle, and LEAN...  If that's not enough, then KEEP LEANING!

yup good advice.  But I will mention that the first time you scrape something it is freaky.

[RVertigo]

I hit a corner too hot (for my sissy abilities) and had to talk myself into leaning more... then more... then more...

Once I pulled through it I went back and did it again.   :lol:

[gs500fromnb]

If you're not dragging parts, you have more room to lean.

Left off the throttle, and LEAN...  If that's not enough, then KEEP LEANING!

yup good advice.  But I will mention that the first time you scrape something it is freaky.

its only freaky AFTER you get through the turn without crashing... kinda like "holy crap what the hell did I just scrape?"
looks at the centerstand "nope"
looks at the pegs "nope"
looks at the new willeyco pipe "cooooooool! Good thing I left some room to go wide and kept it upright" :lol:

Funny thing is I caught some pretty nasty headshake after it gripped again, went wide but was able to muscle it back into line and I was completely out of the turn before I had a chance to notice that this was a close call. After a while, working a habbit of not panicking pays off big time... you'll have lots of time to panick later when your not riding.

[RVertigo]

you'll have lots of time to panick later when your not riding.

YUP!!!

[Dana]

Yeeeeears ago a friend of mine was looking at the scraped ends of my SR500 (Yamaha single) pegs.  "What happened, did you lay it down?"

I explained that it happened when I went around a corner. He didn't believe me so I leaned the bike over until the end of the pegs touched ground and I surprised myself. I must be NUTS doing this while the bike is in motion.

Bikes will lean quite a bit. You just have to know how far those hard parts are sticking out on the sides (floor boards, highway pegs, center stands).

I can't imagine the lean angles on those super moto bikes. Dirt bike with street tires and very high pegs.

[RedShift]

In my opinion coming in "too hot" and "leaning more" are counter-intuitive to a new rider.  

The feeling of being unable to make the turn suggests you don't yet have the confidence to deal with that situation.  That feeling says "slow down" and "be more upright" when the real answer may well be to press harder and maintain bike attitude.

Every situation must be taken on its own -- not every answer is to press harder -- but most of the time this is indeed the best choice.  Until you use up your braking reserve, trail braking is possible but requires a delicate tough.

I find the number of situations where I can follow my MSF training and "right the bike and brake hard" are actually few and far between.  I find this to be a paradox -- by the time I might want to do this, I'm usually running out of road to do it in.

I do occasionally trail brake, and agree that an experienced rider can execute this as they usually have the instinct that tells them they have the reserve to pull it off.  But for a new rider, just remember to lean more, aim for the car tire path (cleanest part of the road) and trust tire grip.

Roy...

[ktrim]

I would suggest that you go to a parking lot and practice shifting and breaking with out feeling anything change in the dynamics of the bike.  if you can slow with out causing the bike to dip or sag , and shift smooth enough that the only thing difference you notice is the rpm change on the bike then slowing in a corner will be much less un-nerving.  practice the light increasing preassure on the brakes,  learn to stop with out "feeling" the brake in the whole bike.  I have no problem braking in the middle of turns (just make sure your not on gravel).  make sure tat all of you movements are fluid and gentle.  nothing quick or jerky.  quick and jerky=face plant= ouch.  smooth = comfortble = relaxed = fast.  the more relaxed you are the more time you have to correct mishaps.  anyway back to the beginning  learn to brake in a straight line with out causing the bike to jerk steady light increasing preassure on rear brakes. when you can do that without thinking about it you can safely slow in a turn.