Another newbie downshift question

rtcpenguin · September 27, 2005, 06:16:34 PM

When I'm slowing for a stop, and hold the shift pedal down (into 1st) I can feel a strong vibration, what is that? Why don't I experience it shifting from 3-2 or 4-3?

oppy00 · September 27, 2005, 08:58:13 PM

My guess is neutral. Anybody with more know-how got an answer?

vanmonkeee · September 27, 2005, 09:12:51 PM

are you pressing down on it the whole time you're coming to a stop? or are you talking about the clutch? I'm a little confused by the wording.

TarzanBoy · September 27, 2005, 09:20:33 PM

without knowing *exactly* what kind of 'vibration' you're talking about...

I'm going to venture a guess that the bike is probably still going a tad too fast and the engine spinning too slowly to safely shift into first gear. Does the 'vibration' feel like a quick pulsing of the gear shift accompanied by a grinding noise and sensation?

Either wait till you've slowed down a tad more before you downshift into first gear, or rev the throttle high enough to match and 'sync' the gears and then shift and continue to compression brake from that point (let off clutch *very GRADUALLY*)

scottpA_GS · September 28, 2005, 07:12:20 AM

I never down shift to 1st until after I stop.. I engine brake every gear while stoping. but, like in a car, you never downshift into first until you are stoped

daneilah · September 28, 2005, 07:27:55 AM

Quote from: scottpeelI never down shift to 1st until after I stop.. I engine brake every gear while stoping. but, like in a car, you never downshift into first until you are stoped

I disagree. I try to get into first just before coasting to a stop. If you wait until you are stopped before shifting into first, it's sometimes hard to do. It'll always drop into first if you're still rolling.

You sure don't want to be moving very fast though, or you get that big clunk!

rtcpenguin · September 28, 2005, 07:37:02 AM

Quote from: TarzanBoywithout knowing *exactly* what kind of 'vibration' you're talking about...

I'm going to venture a guess that the bike is probably still going a tad too fast and the engine spinning too slowly to safely shift into first gear. Does the 'vibration' feel like a quick pulsing of the gear shift accompanied by a grinding noise and sensation?

Yes, that is exactly what it feels like. I was under the impression that you could shift safely into any gear as long as you had the clutch fully disengaged.

In MSF they teach you to put it into first before you come to a complete stop.

Cal Price · September 28, 2005, 08:31:40 AM

Going down into first can give you that gear-crunch vibration. Worst case is that clutch is not correctly disengaged but this is not likely. The best way to overcome it in my experience is not to pussyfoot with it but whack it down sharply. It helps if you let out the cluch in neutral and then declutch again for shift to first. If you are coming to a planned and orderly stop this should not be a problem. If your stop is more urgent don't worry, concentrate on what's ahead, and then very quickly what's behind.

Roadstergal · September 28, 2005, 09:36:06 AM

Quote from: rtcpenguinIn MSF they teach you to put it into first before you come to a complete stop.

Ja, but on the GS500, you're going to have to define "before" as "one nanosecond before."

Alphamazing · September 28, 2005, 10:03:05 AM

Honestly, I really like the sound of that first gear ka-chunk. It's so definative, saying, "I am in first gear. Look out." Or something along those lines. While it might not be SUPER SUPER VERY WELL good for the transmission, it's just so reassuringly THERE.

I usually use engine braking in first and shift to neutral after I stop. I used to experience the difficulty in getting to first from a stop, but if you learn to work the clutch just right it's never an issue. If you can't do it, try squeezing the clutch a few times, then drop it into first.

scottpA_GS · September 28, 2005, 01:01:20 PM

I guess I should be a bit more clear about what I was saying... I do put the bike in first while coming to a stop, however I dont release the clutch and engine brake w/ 1st

Narcissus · September 28, 2005, 06:04:57 PM

Neither do I, if I know I'm going to have to come to a complete stop, i.e. stop sign, I will usually engine brake from 4th to 3rd but once I'm close enough I just pull in the clutch and glide into the stop, downshifting as my speed reduces. It seems that I have to be going quite slow before shifting into 1st, (even though I don't think it should matter if the clutch is in) or else I get a grinding. Now I don't shift into first until I'm acouple meters away from the stop and I give it a good firm kick down instead of a tap like I would downshifting from any higher gears.

Octous · September 28, 2005, 11:22:55 PM

I think it's a good idea to get into first as you come to a stop. My MSF teacher put it very well. If you're in neutral or second. Where are you going to go if someone creeps on on you from behind or if something happens. You'll just be a sitting duck. And sitting ducks don't live very long.

I compltely understand the desire to put it in neutral after you stop and just hang out. I personally prefer to leave my bike in gear.

kimo3825 · September 29, 2005, 12:26:34 AM

finially thought of any idea why i like so cal.

u can split lanes.

Cal Price · September 29, 2005, 08:08:38 AM

Thread seems to ber drifting slightly but when stopped at a light or whatever you want to be in first gear, clutch in, RIGHT foot on the deck, front brake on. Watching you mirror as well as the light. This gives you the best chance to react to any situation. You only want to be in neutral when you start and then finish your ride.

Badger · September 29, 2005, 08:36:34 AM

Quote from: Cal PriceThread seems to ber drifting slightly but when stopped at a light or whatever you want to be in first gear, clutch in, RIGHT foot on the deck, front brake on. Watching you mirror as well as the light. This gives you the best chance to react to any situation. You only want to be in neutral when you start and then finish your ride.

Why not BOTH feet on the deck? I can't think of a reason why you'd want to keep your left foot up on the peg--you're not going to need to shift to get it moving. Also, doesn't holding the front brake somewhat defeat the value of keeping it in first? If the goal is to allow the most expeditious exit, why not just be ready on the throttle? Sure, it only takes a fraction of a second to release the brake and roll the trottle, but those fractions seem to be exactly what you're trying to eliminate.

I'm just curious because if I'm stopped somewhere, I don't hold the brake unless I'm on a slope (I release the brake after I've verified that I have adequate traction). On upslopes I favor the rear to hold it in place so that I don't roll backwards when getting underway--although if I'm waiting, I'll use the front so that I can keep both feet on the ground until the light is ready to go, then switch to holding with the rear or in the friction zone. If I'm waiting at a traffic signal that I know is a long cycle, I'll frequently put it in neutral after a couple of cars have come to a stop behind me, and back in first when the previous cycle goes yellow.

Roadstergal · September 29, 2005, 09:05:00 AM

I hold the brake so if something happens that I can't avoid (guy behind me comes to a stop, then takes it into his head to lurch forward and tap my bike, e.g.), I don't lurch out into the intersection and get T-boned.

Plus, it keeps the brake light on, so the dimwits behind realize that I'm stopped.

My Name Is Dave · September 29, 2005, 10:20:47 AM

Quote from: Cal PriceThread seems to ber drifting slightly but when stopped at a light or whatever you want to be in first gear, clutch in, RIGHT foot on the deck, front brake on. Watching you mirror as well as the light. This gives you the best chance to react to any situation. You only want to be in neutral when you start and then finish your ride.

I don't know if the terms mean different things over there (see: Fanny), but I am pretty sure that you want your left foot on the ground. Right on the peg. Am I wrong? Again, the currency conversion may make "right" mean "left" over there, but I'm not sure...

Dave

Badger · September 29, 2005, 10:22:00 AM

Quote from: RoadstergalI hold the brake so if something happens that I can't avoid (guy behind me comes to a stop, then takes it into his head to lurch forward and tap my bike, e.g.), I don't lurch out into the intersection and get T-boned.

I suspect that this logic is flawed. If you get bumped from behind with the brakes locked, I would think you would still get pushed into the intersection, but with little/no lateral stablity (since the wheels are skidding, not rolling) you'd also probably fall down there. Bad situation now worse. At least if you're rolling instead of skidding, you might have some control over where you end up.

Quote from: RoadstergalPlus, it keeps the brake light on, so the dimwits behind realize that I'm stopped.

True enough, but if they're paying so little attention that they wouldn't see your legs on the ground and the red traffic light, is the brake light going to make that much difference? At night I completely agree...brake light is critical. In daylight, I suppose the argument could be made that putting it in neutral and standing up straight, hands on hips is a clear indication that you're not going anywhere (I'm not making that argument, though

). Perhaps it's a different situation if there's already someone behind you at a stop vs. you stopped at the traffic light all by your lonesome. *shrug*

On a marginally related idiot cager note: I had an bizzare situation at the gas pump yesterday. While I was filling the tank, a car came whipping into the station off the road (they had just cut across the oncoming lane to get around traffic waiting at the light) and tried to pull into the same pump that I was at (head on

). They stopped about 3 feet from my front wheel and waited there, like I was in their way. I held up the fuel pump and waved at them (I thought very politely) before they realized that this pump was ocupado. Dunno if it was blue fuel pump + blue GS == camoflage, or if they were just idiots not paying attention.

I'd bet on the latter.

Made me think that it might be a good idea to leave the parking lights on while fueling in the dark...then I thought, gas vapor + electricity == probably not a good idea.

dbNnc · September 30, 2005, 08:10:50 AM

On the subject of downshifting, sometimes I try to downshift and the shifter won't move. Usually this happens when I'm slowing for a turn, so I concentrate on making the turn and don't worry about the shifter if it doesn't downshift. Am I not pulling in the clutch handle enough or is there another reason? I bought the bike used at a dealership in May and have put about 1500 miles on it (total approx. 3,700). The oil was changed before I bought it.

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Another newbie downshift question