This should make everyone stop complaining about gas prices

[The Buddha]

Coal is a replenishable resource. Take all the useless trees (I mean the trees that we cant use to build housed or tables out of and fire it in a kiln ... OK fine first let the sun have at it, then burn it in a low O2 atmosphere ... get the heat from that to do some else that needs heat ... like run a foundry or other ... OK fine not hot enough to melt stuff ... but hey we're still working on it ... and then use it just like petro coal ...
Cool.
Srinath.

[RVertigo]

It must be nice...  Here...  I'll do it too.

Good day, sunshine... Everything will be alright.  YAY!  I'm happy.

Useless trees?  Good one...

You ever hear about the fuel shortage in Europe...  The fuel was wood.  They killed pretty much every source they could find and screwed themselves.

So tell me...  When the mythical renewable alternative fuel source comes out, will it magically work in existing engines or will we have to convert them?

You should look at Brazil.  They're the first country to actually try to break free of oil.  How long did it take them?  2 years?  No, try 25 years...  Now, do the math on production vs demand.  In 25 years it won't matter any more...  In 10 years it won't matter.

It has very little to do with oil actually running out and it has everything to do with supply and demand...  It has to do with conversion costs...  It has to do with the cost of manufacturing the fuel in order for it to be CHEAP.

We could have enough oil for the next 5,000 years hiding somewhere...  It doesn't matter.  If we can't find it, we can't use it.  Oil discovery peaked a long time ago.  When discovery peaks, production peaks shortly after...  That rule applies to everything, not just oil.  Even if we were to find the largest source of oil every found, it wouldn't be enough... It still wouldn't matter.  Demand is still going to outpace production.  There's no way we can keep up with it...  We can't even keep up with it now.

THAT is what Peak Oil is about.  It has nothing to do with actually running out of oil.

[Badger]

Coal is a replenishable resource. Take all the useless trees (I mean the trees that we cant use to build housed or tables out of and fire it in a kiln ... OK fine first let the sun have at it, then burn it in a low O2 atmosphere ... get the heat from that to do some else that needs heat ... like run a foundry or other ... OK fine not hot enough to melt stuff ... but hey we're still working on it ... and then use it just like petro coal ...
Cool.
Srinath.

That's not coal, though...that's charcoal.  It doesn't have the density or the energy per weight that antrhacite coal has, and I believe it leaves more residue and produces far more carcinogens, making it unsuitable for most modern applications that require mineral coal (power generation, etc.), and I don't beleve it burns as hot.  Coal (mineral coal) is not a replenishable resource...it is a fossil fuel.

[Stephen072774]

Yeah lignite is the lowest rank of coal and it takes thousands of years to make, bituminous coal takes longer than that.  Some Western states have millions and millions of tons of coal just sitting in reserves.  

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/08/02/build/state/25-coal-fuel.inc

[RVertigo]

And how much energy does it take to convert it?  How much "gas" is retained from the conversion?  Since it is also a finite resource, will the source last long enough to find another source?

And the most important question...

Can the production keep pace with demand?

Alternative fuel sources are great if they're not an energy sink, but the problem is keeping up with the demand for fuel.  That's what peak oil is about.  If we can't keep our fuel running at its increasing pace, we will all suffer...

[Stephen072774]

Well that article says the break even point is 35 dollars a barrel, and the price now is closer to double that, so its cheaper now for conversion.  The reason we have yet to persude this is we have been getting oil from the middle east for less than 35.  I think there is a reason the government lets billions of reserves sit while we fight for foregn oil, I just hope they are smart. :dunno:

There is enough coal in the US to fuel our great, great-grand children, probably much longer than that.  And as far as production keeping pace with demand, thats all a factor of getting enough refinerys that are capible.  Same with the gases problem.

Thats the reason the value of high sulfer content coal has risen, because we have figured out how to convert it to power without all the pollution.  everyone is worried about oil and gas for their cars, but the average joe doesn't have a clue where his power comes from.  And no one is worried about power.  There is no need to be either.

I don't know the answers to you questions, thats for sure, but I have seen a boom in coal in the last 2 years that is incredible.  And for good reason.

[RVertigo]

everyone is worried about oil and gas for their cars, but the average joe doesn't have a clue where his power comes from.  And no one is worried about power.

Power is one of the things to worry about with a fuel shortage...  But, food is the #1 thing to worry about.

It takes a lot of time and money to get a new system into place...  The way things are looking, we're already nearly broke and time is running out.

I'd love to have a shinny happy outlook on it, but our government has been ignoring this issue since the 70s...  That doesn't give me any confidence.  If individual people could make a difference, there'd be something we could do.  It takes government mandates and gobs of tax money to change our energy supply to a new source.

I don't know about you, but I'm not worried about how I'm gonna get to work...  I'm worried about having a work to go to.  The economic repercussions from an energy shortage are not something I'm looking forward to.

[Stephen072774]

I don't know about you, but I'm not worried about how I'm gonna get to work...  I'm worried about having a work to go to.  The economic repercussions from an energy shortage are not something I'm looking forward to.

Well, i work in the coal industry.  But yea I can understand what you're saying.

[RVertigo]

You guys hiring?  Talk about job security!!

I wouldn't go on and on about peak oil if the government would actually get off its lazy ass and do something.

The last energy bill to pass just poured more money into oil, including more tax breaks for oil companies...  Not even a mention of peak oil or alternative fuels.

[Old Mr. Wilson]

Truly an exellent article Vertigo.....exellent. So sad but true. Robert Mugabe is nothing more than a spear wielding savage in a business suit to be sure. Surely the world can see what happens when seemingly good intentions "turn back over" a country to the premiere (is that the right word?) occupants (that were running around in animal skins) of a country and expectations are that they are "just like" the Colonialists that engineered the skyscrapers and the once greatness of the country. One of the many arguments given is that "they" never had the opportunity or education.
Now one sees the putrid squalor the populace is forced to endure.
It is a return to what it used to be. Zimbabwe (that is Bantu dialect for old Rhodesia) is destined, I'm afraid to become a dustbowl.......just like most parts of Africa. I'm personally deathly afraid of what is to become of our great nation as well. The 3rd world syndrome. I am also afraid of what will become of our brethren across the pond in Great Britian and all of Europe. I raise my glass to people like Cecil Rhodes and Ian Smith.
Those were the kind that were PERMITTED to go in.......stomp ass......build and HOLD ON to what was a crown jewel surrounded by thorns and a cesspool. May God rest their souls and have mercy on us as a nation. There are the Elitists that want to destroy us all for their ill-gotten gains all the while under the guise for the good of all. May horrific DEATH befall them all.     Love, Wilson

[Phaedrus]

If we could just get engines that run on saltwater.... :lol: .

Or some kind of nuclear power, that would be pretty cool...

How come motor oil itself is still cheap, but gas is expensive? Is that because the refining is what costs so much money, or it is a completely different oil, or what?  :dunno: