Sliding the rear, brakeing procedures

[Alphamazing]

So, let's make the assumption that the rear wheel has been locked, it's going slightly to the side, and you're still rolling forward at a fairly quick velocity. Do you continue to squeeze the front brakes like you normally would? Progressively harder and harder. I know you want to retain your rear wheel lockup to avoid highsiding, but do you treat the front brakes as if it were a normal stopping procedure?

[GeeP]

Hmm...  Good question.  Can't remember if the MSF covered this and I don't have my book here.

My first reaction would be to steer into the skid and stop squeezing harder on the front brake.  Once straightened out I'd start squeezing harder again.  The key being to get out of the side-skid to regain moderate control over my direction.

I would think that the more front braking power you apply while sketched out like that, the more you'll probably have to steer into the skid.  Reasoning being that the more you apply the front brake the less weight on the rear, therefore even less traction in the rear.  Also, I think that releasing large amounts of front brake while sketched out could result in a high-side as the rear regains lost traction.  

:dunno:

[cheesy]

two ways to look at this

1) what made you lock it up in the first place? If you have limited space I'd stay on the front brake and try and steer into it...


2) if you just screwed up and locked it up I'd use the fronts, but not very hard.  You're more likely of having the rear swing around on you.

[Alphamazing]

I was pulling up to a stoplight that was green, then changed yellow, right as someone pulled out from a parking space right ahead of me into the lane (no lights on this thing whatsoever, it just jumped out. Short person in a big SUV, couldn't even see her head. Talking on a cell phone.). I had to make the emergency stop, but there was some gravel in the road due to construction in the area so the rear started to slide towards the right (there is a slope towards the edge of the road).

Luckily I avoided laying it down, but when I came to a stop the thing kinda lunged towards the side - what with the momentum of the bike being sideways going forward - and I had to really haul on it to keep it from going down. It just got me thinking about the proper technique for front brake use, as I mentioned earlier.

[V8Pinto]

Point it where you want to go and punch it!

[Alphamazing]

Point it where you want to go and punch it!

That wasn't possible. There was a car where I was pointed, and had I turned the front wheel to where it was alligned with the rear wheel, I still would have hit her. It was an SUV. It took up the whole lane. I would have possibly ended up in the lane next to me, conveniently filled by another SUV.

Does anyone know the proper procedure for the front brake useage, though? Do you continue applying pressure to the front in the same manner you would a normal stop, or do you do it less so?

[RVertigo]

Keep the rear locked and continue to use the front brake to slow you down...  Apply as much pressure as you can without locking the front.

[Alphamazing]

Keep the rear locked and continue to use the front brake to slow you down...  Apply as much pressure as you can without locking the front.

So basically treat the front as if you were making a normal emergency stop, correct?

And I guess the only way to deal with the momentum of the bike is to have enough strength not to drop it when it comes to a stop, and you've got your right foot on the brake with about 400 pounds of metal and flammable liquid being pushed your way.

[RVertigo]

Well, your main goal is to not crash...  But more importantly, you don't want to high-side by releasing the front brake.

If you slide to a stop and drop it, that's way better than hitting something or high-siding.

[V8Pinto]

So basically treat the front as if you were making a normal emergency stop, correct?

And I guess the only way to deal with the momentum of the bike is to have enough strength not to drop it when it comes to a stop, and you've got your right foot on the brake with about 400 pounds of metal and flammable liquid being pushed your way.

You just need to get a feel for it.  Dirt bikes are great training for this, especially in loose-pack.  

This is actually a good arguement for practicing stoppies (well, without the endo part).  You can get to the point where you can skid the front wheel safely (I know, sounds odd).  The point is that it is up to you to know the traction limits of your front wheel under various conditions.  Throw in the dirt biking so that you are familiar with this with the bike all out of shape and now you will have the ability to brake under this condition.  

I remember this one picture from one of my magazines in the 80's of (probably) Freddie Spencer.  It was a shot taken from the sideline behind him as he was entering a turn.  There is clearly visible a patch of rubber trailing his front wheel and his bike is already banked over about 15 degrees or so and completely stable.  The point of the article was that the fast guys can skid BOTH wheels to scrub off speed if they like - and still remain right side up.

The procedure you are looking for is somewhat based on conditions and you have to be adaptive to the situation.  If the rear is locked then by all means keep it locked until you really know what you're doing.  While it is locked you want the front wheel to be rotating so you can steer to safety - Braking may or may not factor into it.  Even though you may not believe it right now, judicious use of throttle solves many more issues than does braking.

A practice of this that I do is to go out to the field and get up some good speed - like 30mph.  Skid the rear wheel and practice steering the bike around with the rear locked.  You don't have to do this with a dirt bike - when you are experienced you can do it with the GS in the grass.  There is little to no room for error with a street bike on grass so wait to practice this until you're ready to replace a mirror or lever or two.  

With the rear locked you can still steer the bike same as always but it gets more dirt-bike-like.  and if you need to slow down you use the front brake to scrub off speed and get the bike straight so you can release the rear and scoot off to safety.

400lbs of GS isn't as bad as you might think if you can keep it vertical.  I used to do this chasing cows near nekid and skunk-drunk on a 470lb Honda with 30 year old tires

Good times.  Good times.