Vermont to Argentina

[VTNewb]

So, a good riding buddy of mine want to blow all of our cash on a ride of a life, get as far into south america as possible.

Looking at some premiminary ideas.

BMW1150 GS adventure of course, but equipment aside

Any sites that have safe routes?

How can I estimate how long it takes to do something like this?

It'll be winter down there during our summer! Ouch!


I just want to get over the really touch intial issues.

My family has a several really strong ties to Buenos Aires in Argentina, it'd be great to make it that far.


Any ideas? Help?

[TarzanBoy]

I don't think it will be possible for you to ride all the way down there.  Central America is a very rugged area, and the few areas that have any development are the lower lying, flat areas.  

These are my best guesses as to obstacles that will prevent such a trip from being possible.  Assuming you made it through Mexico (which itself would be a feat):

-Lack of gas stations in the interior (the GS has a functional range of ~200 miles on a full tank assuming ideal conditions.  There are easily larger spans than this without access to gasoline... much less the high octane you are supposed to use for a motorbike

-Seriously mountainous terrain.  Fire up google earth and take a look at what you are proposing about riding through.  The GS is a STREETbike, not a dual or off-roader.

-Equipment failure.  If you think your GS will be in working order the whole time riding it most of the day everyday... then you're making an overestimation.  Its an air-cooled 2 cylinder engine...  not a machine made for frequent repeated long hauls

-The elements.  The weather alone would probably make this trip impossible.  What would you do if you got caught in a tropical storm while in the bush on a dirt road with no shelter?

I could go on and on theorizing.... as skeptical as I am, the truth is that I really know very little about this type of undertaking.  I imagine there are probably a slew of issues that i haven't even thought of.  My gut tells me that this trip is hard enough in a car... and that trying it on a bike would be folly.

A bit of googling turned up this advice:

Read Tim Cahill's Road Fever.
He did the trip from South to North.  (Tierra del Fuego to Alaska).
Besides being a great read, he describes some of the paperwork and
logistical issues, including how he got around the Darien Gap.

[TarzanBoy]

I also found this newsgroup posting:


There have been several vehicle, motorcycle, and at
least one bicycle expedition to cross the Darien Gap of Panama and Colombia.
My husband, Loren, and I, are entered in the 1992 Guinness Book of Records for
the first ALL LAND crossing of the Darien Gap by vehicle, a 1966 Jeep (1985-
1987).  Since then we have all been the first to cross the Darien Gap ALL on
LAND via a two wheel drive Rokon motorcycle (1995).  All other vehicle
expedtions that crossed the Darien Gap traveled a great deal of the distance
via the vast river systems.  For more information please see
http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/world.htm or
http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/gap.htm

Patricia E. Upton
patri...@outbackofbeyond.com

[ashman]

he wasnt talking about using his GS. and i'm sure its possible. i mean, this isnt the north pole here. if there are people in these areas there are some sorts of roads. how do u think they get all the coke out of central america?

-ash

[Blazinjr]

I seen a video of a guy that took a R1 or a FZ1 through Africa and a couple other continents.  I can't remember where I seen it.  ?

One scene was of him being pulled through a huge mudhole while being pushed by some natives.  He had saddle bags, back pack, tail bag, and a huge tank bag.  He also had spare tires mounted to the tail bag.  It looked like something from the old Sanford & son tv show.

[davipu]

tarzanboy, you sir are a idiot. that is all I am going to say on the subject.
the both of you need to read two wheels through terror
http://www.whitehorsepress.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=4&products_id=4809

and if your too cheep to buy it, you can borrow my copy, providing you agree to return it in the condition that it is recieved in. (pm me with a shipping address and it'll be in the mail tomarrow.)


so if your already offended turn the puter off, curl up in the fetal postion in the corner and dont read further.

I don't think it will be possible for you to ride all the way down there. Central America is a very rugged area, and the few areas that have any development are the lower lying, flat areas.

These are my best guesses as to obstacles that will prevent such a trip from being possible. Assuming you made it through Mexico (which itself would be a feat):


there's less than 100 miles of the pan american hwy that aren't paved.

Lack of gas stations in the interior (the GS has a functional range of ~200 miles on a full tank assuming ideal conditions. There are easily larger spans than this without access to gasoline... much less the high octane you are supposed to use for a motorbike

-Seriously mountainous terrain. Fire up google earth and take a look at what you are proposing about riding through. The GS is a STREETbike, not a dual or off-roader.



200 miles? someone dosn't know how to tune carbs. no, if you have a 200 mile range then you need to plan gas stops accordingly you will have plenty of stations to fill at, you will either need to carry a gas can or stay on the coast.  high octane.  your the reason that the oil companies are making record profits.  see previous statement about pavement.  also check out agvrider.org for "streetbikes playing in the dirt"

-Equipment failure. If you think your GS will be in working order the whole time riding it most of the day everyday... then you're making an overestimation. Its an air-cooled 2 cylinder engine... not a machine made for frequent repeated long hauls


triumph made the first production twin with a parrelell cyl design in 1938 btw it was aircooled, and 500 cc. (although a undersquare Bore/ stroke) I think that in the last 57 years they have worked the kinks out.  and that  in spanish/ portugese speaking countries it whould seen to me that the simpler the bike the better.  and there are very few places that you can do "80 down the interstate" in chile.
-The elements. The weather alone would probably make this trip impossible. What would you do if you got caught in a tropical storm while in the bush on a dirt road with no shelter?


-The elements. The weather alone would probably make this trip impossible. What would you do if you got caught in a tropical storm while in the bush on a dirt road with no shelter?



well i for one whould be throughly prepared with my goretex aerostich riding suit, and whould keep riding untill I have visibility problems.  normal people on the other hand whould stick to the paved roads.

I could go on and on theorizing.... as skeptical as I am, the truth is that I really know very little about this type of undertaking. I imagine there are probably a slew of issues that i haven't even thought of. My gut tells me that this trip is hard enough in a car... and that trying it on a bike would be folly.



yeah stop.   I'm about shitfaced and still thinking at a level elevated beyond your chomprehention.   like how you mannage to walk and chew gum at the same time?  a motorcyclist whouldn't even mention thinking about a car in that context.  your really coming out of the closet as a wannabe-RUB w/bling. do your globes even have south america on them,  or do they look more like the top of this car?



now to VT's original ?'s

http://ronayres.com/  chech out the tours and rentals.
beemers are big and heavy.
see above
see above
it's the oppisiote it is here.
get a lonely planet guide,a good gps, a good network of people back here and have fun.

[ashman]

lol  :lol: davipu, your posts in response to ignorance are always worth a read.

-ash

[vfrocket]

I'm not sure a trek through South America would be my choice. You could easily do a month long ride tight in the US... or even a trip to Alaska would be cool...

Just my thoughts.

[dhgeyer]

Maybe someone here has a better memory for the details than I do, but I know some guy in the 1950's or early 60's rode around the World on a Brit (Triumph I think) 500cc vertical twin.  South America isn't an untamed jungle these days, and lots of people ride motorcycles there - a lot more than here!

Still, it's a very major trip you're contemplating, especially for a new rider. I would suggest some shorter trips first. There are a lot of issues to deal with when you set out  to do any kind of touring. You have to figure out whether you want to camp or find lodging, and you have to be very judicious about what you bring and how you pack it (for any kind of weather mind you). There's a lot to learn and details to work out for your own particular style of touring. Some shorter runs to get the kinks out are just a real good idea.

There are a lot of resources on the web for motorcycle touring. You will want to find them and absorb them - note particularly all the contradicting advice you will find. How to go about this  really does involve a lot of personal preference.

Range: in warm weather I get about 60 mpg (regular gas - not high test). Five gallon tank. That is a bit more than 200 miles unless I'm not doing the math right.


Lastly, don't let anyone tell you that a 500cc bike isn't big enough for touring. We're warped in this country. A 500cc machine is more than big enough to do distance if you're healthy. The main thing is that the bike must fit you comfortably. For example, I can't ride cruisers for any distance, as that riding position puts all your weight on your butt, and my back can't handle it. Very few people have this problem, so that's a personal thing with me. The GS500 is very comfortable for me for long rides.  If I were riding to a foreign country, I would want a simple, basic bike like the GS, and  relatively small might be an asset depending on the kind of riding situations you get into.

[Jhart]

There is a group ride schedualed for Sept next year see http://aleduc.iweb.bsu.edu/2006Americas/index.htm

It sounds nuts and fun at the same time.

[JetSwing]

here a guy who's going around the world. he started off from california and end up in australia. currently, he had just left long island, ny.

http://blog.empas.com/motoride/

[Crim]

I read a book about a trip (in a car however...) from the tip of south america to alaska in attempt to beat a world record (make the trip in under a week or something...)

Anyhow, as I recall the most difficult portion of the trip was of coarse south america, due to all of its countries (many of which are apparently not very friendly with eachother), anything from being attacked by bandits, to attempting to navigate unmaintained "roads"  I can't remember the name of the book, but they spent a very good portion of time planning the trip, contacting various embasses at the countries they'd be passing thru, and packed plenty of bribes to get them thru all the various border checks.

I'd suggest you try to get into contact with someone who's made a similar trek as you're wanting, and get some first hand expierence/tips from those who have been there and done it.

[Badger]

Make sure you check State Department advisories (there's a gov't site somewhere that has them).  I recall not too long ago there were a number of advisories in that area...most of which pertained to being attacked and killed by bandits.

[edit]
The importance of this is that sometimes the advisories identify specific roads/routes to avoid.  Ones with 'active' badness going on...as in "if you travel this road without an armed escort, you are at significant risk of being ambushed by militants and held hostage".  Actually, you'll probably want to talk directly to the state department anyway to deal with any visas/travel papers you'll need, since you'd be going through a number of countries whose borders aren't as friendly and permissive as Canada and Mexico.  Best to get all of that dealt with ahead of time.

[Phaedrus]

He is from Vermont, I am sure he is used to "seriously mountainous terrain" and "so called roads".  :lol:

I think it would be an interesting trip. Make sure you do a lot of documentation and take a lot of photos to share when you get home safely. I know I'd be very interested.

I think it would be a very admirable ride, best of luck to you.

Should you consider some kind of protection? I don;t know how that would work going through customs, though. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring along a language translator and learn some of the customs of the south American countries you plan on visiting. You don't want to inadvertently PISS THEM OFF and end up hurt or in jail.

[Badger]

Should you consider some kind of protection? I don;t know how that would work going through customs, though. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring along a language translator and learn some of the customs of the south American countries you plan on visiting. You don't want to inadvertently PISS THEM OFF and end up hurt or in jail.

If you're talking about bringing a firearm, then -definitely- check with the state department...if you end up in prison you're on your own.  I sort of assumed that VTNewb at least speaks Spanish...when I was working in S. America (Chile), I ran into very few people that spoke any English at all, and I couldn't function without my translator (I don't speak any Spanish).

[VTNewb]

Not to make fun of anyone in this post, but if you'll actually read what I said, the bike I'm proposing to use is stated in the third line, and it aint a GS.

I'm decent in spanish, as my family lived in argentina for 20 years  before I was born. Everyone speaks it.

David you bring up a good point about weight. I do want something with beefed out suspension with ahuge luggage capacity. Maybe the 650 dakar model? 62 litres of storage claimed. Thats like 3 dead hookers.

I'm mostly concerned with trip time right now. I want to get over the big  humps like cash and time, then move down to routes, then just do it.

[pantablo]

didnt Che' Guevara ride into argentina and write about it?

[dhgeyer]

There's no magic bullet to figuring out how long it's going to take. It's  total distance divided by how far you can go in a day plus however many days you want/need to take off for sightseeing, maintenance, rest, and whatever else.  People who tour develop a style that they're comfortable with.

How far you can go in a day depends mostly on you. It also depends on getting a bike that's comfortable for you. Don't just pick a bike based on paper capabilities.  I wanted a BMW for 30 years. When I went looking for one, and started doing test rides, the only one I could ever stand was a K75S.  I can go a lot farther on the GS500 than on any BMW I ever tried, but that's me, not you.

Some people can easily ride 5 to 6 hundred miles in a day, or  even more. Ever heard of the Iron Butt 50cc? Coast to coast in 50 hours elapsed time, counting all breaks. People do that. I can't do that, and wouldn't want to.  And with a trip like that, you're going to have to do it for weeks on end.  It adds up, and tired is dangerous. No one can tell you what your limits are, and until you try it you won't know either.

I know you say you want to do it on the BMW, but I wouldn't  start a trip like that on any bike that I hadn't tested on some shorter rides first.  Like I said before, there's a learning curve here. You don't want to start out on a many thousand mile trip with no touring experience. If you had much touring experience you wouldn't be asking the questions you're asking.

That's probably not what you wanted to hear, for which I am sorry. I hope it helps you anyway.

Dave Geyer
Merrimack, NH

[VTNewb]

If I didn't want to hear it I wouldn't have asked  

longest trip I've done (several times) is to albany,

The BMW GS series are set up quit elike dirtbikes, which I love the position and riding style of, besides being extremely capable, of course I'd test ride first. I think its a matter of deciding what route we want to take. I like backroad stuff myself.

[dhgeyer]

For whatever it's worth, which is exactly one data point, the longest MC trip I've done was Merrimack, NH to New Orleans, LA and back: 3300 miles in 13 days, counting days not riding at all.  That's only an average of 253 miles a day.  I'm glad I went there while it was still there!

I'm in no hurry. I like to stop and walk, visit gun stores, visit antique stores, museums, talk to people, read, take a lot of pictures, look at pretty girls, take pictures of pretty girls, talk to pretty girls, sleep late, etc.  I'm retired - I'll get there when I get there, well rested and smiling.  I tend to do some highway, but mostly two lane, which is a lot more fun.  I've done 500 plus mile days, but I didn't enjoy them.

Most people who tour do more daily miles than I do, especially if they've set themselves a very ambitious goal.

Ask yourself why you want to do it to begin with, what you expect to get out of it. Is it enough to acheive a goal of x distance in so much time, or do you want to experience a lot of what you're riding through.  If I were doing a trip like what you're talking about, I'd budget several months. But, again, that's me, not you.

Dave Geyer
Merrimack, NH