Need new television! Going LCD?

[cobalt135]

Ok, my 19" TV is like 15 years old and it is starting to to buzz really loud when you turn it on.  Buzz LOUD for like 5 minutes and I can't stand it anymore.  I don't want to get it fixed...just ready to move on.  I am looking at LCD TV's and want to go with the best quality and largest screen for under $1,200.  It will also need to have speakers attached.  I noticed quite a few reviews listing various "cons" but come on, it still has to be better than a 15 Y.O. CRT??  I suppose it is just nit-picking because the 1 or 2 grand LCD is not performing like a $5,000+ Plasma?

Anyone shopped around or purchased one of these like to comment?

[roguegeek]

I've been doing research on my next TV for well over a year now and a couple of weeks ago I picked up a Samsung HL-R5078W. It's a DLP display with 1080p capabilities and I love it. Had to get something to compliment the Xbox 360. Anyway, there's a lot to go over, so here we go.

Let's talk about formats real quick. You will want to go with an HDTV obviously. You wont be able to find a 1080p (this would be resolution) HDTV in your price range so you'll be looking at 1080i. This isn't a bad thing. There isn't too huge of a different between the two and the simple fact is there is nothing out there taking advantage of 1080p at this time. Any HDTV is a huge step up from your basic television (which would be 480p). Stay away from anything that say EDTV. That format is old and, for the most part, dead.

Alright, now let's deal with display technology. You mentioned LCD, but there are several you need to really get your head around before you make any decision. The two different types of display technologies you're going to want to look at are direct-view and rear-projection. Direct-view gives you a direct (duh) view of the display where as a rear-projection display is projected up and in back of the screen you are viewing. Without getting into too much detail, direct-view can get very thin, where as rear-projection may be deeper in dimensions.

Direct-view technologies you will be looking into will be LCD and plasma. I personally don't like either of them. LCDs you get all of the problems you would with a laptop screen. Dead pixels. Slow response time. Constant calibration for color. Plasmas are able to suffer burn-in if not taken care of properly, but they offer very nice image quality. The upside to LCD and plasma are that they can be extremely thin, light, and stylish. To me, these are just BS reason to buy an HDTV.

Rear-projection technologies you will be looking into will be rear-projection LCD, rear-projection CRT, DLP, and LCoS. LCoS is out of your price range, completely unproven, and really not worth it if you ask me, so let's just drop that one all together. Rear-projection LCD will have all of the same problems that direct-view LCD will have, but it will be cheaper. It's not a bad way to go. Rear-projection CRT is kind of an older technology and doesn't offer the clarity of the other technologies, but it's reliable. DLP (Digital Light Projection) is very much like LCD, but without a lot of the LCD problems. It also offers much better contrast ratios which means better picture quality. DLPs do suffer from an effect call the rainbow effect. All rear-projection technologies use a lamp that will need to get replaced every 3 years or so. Expect to pay around $300 for the replacement.

Ok, recommendation time. I suggest you go with a 1080i rear-projection HDTV. Look at DLPs first. They offer extremely good image quality all around and are very reliable. They're also inexpensive considering all of the 1080p sets that have been released in the last year. The two big names in the DLP crowd are Mitsubishi and Samsung. They're simply the best and wont break your bank. Check out the Samsung HL-R4266 and Mitsubishi WD-52525. If you can't find anything in DLP range, move onto rear-projection LCD. Everyone is pretty equal there, but you're going to want to stay away from Sony with this technology. The are not as good as other major brands and are usually more expensive.

As if this wasn't long and boring enough, there's a couple more things you should know, but this should be good enough to get you started on your research. I want to touch on connections because I think it's important. Check out Cnet.com for reviews. They also have a good section there on introducing people to HDTV and explaining what it is. I'm sure I'll make a couple more suggestions in a little bit. Questions?

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

I agree with most of what Roguegeek said. I sold HDTVs all last year for HHGregg here in Atlanta, and, unlike most consumers, roguegeek is pretty well informed. One TV that he didn't mention that could fall into your price range is a Toshiba DLP. If you end up going LCD Projection, Hitachi is the TV that's got my vote as best in the industry. If you go DLP, I agree, the Mitsubishis are amazing, but spring for the wd-52725, as the wd-52525 is an older model. Both of them use a system called net command, which, once set up properly uses a series of infrared blasters (basically just a retransmitter) to control all the components of your system (dvd player, surround sound receiver, vcr, cd changer, whatever). As for the bulb replacements, like roguegeek said, the lamps last about 3ish years, and are around $300 a pop. Most places, like my store, or Best Buy, or Circuit City sell an extended warranty (we don't call them that, we call it a service or maintenance plan).. In the case of a projection TV, it's a good idea. Ours was $300 for 5 years of in home service, covering a yearly cleaning, bulbs, EVERY component of the TV (except cosmetics, i.e. scratches, chips, etc), and a no hassle guarantee (i.e., you call because you think something's wrong, we come out, even if nothing's wrong, you don't get charged a cent)... all with guaranteed in home service within 48 hours. In this case, I highly recommend the service plan, as, once you have the TV cleaned out (reduces heat in the TV, leading to longer life for the components), and the bulb replaced once, the plan has more than paid for itself. If you decide you want to stick to a small flat panel LCD, obviously, Sharp Aquos is the way to go. However, for the money you're looking to spend, you won't get a very large one, about 17" or so. Sony LCDs (and all their other products) are grossly overpriced and underperforming, so I'd recommend you stay away from those. I own 4 JVC LCDs (got last year's model for DIRT cheap), and am completely happy with them. JVC is by no means TOP of the line, but they make a nice set, offer great customer support, and don't cost top dollar like some others. Any other questions, feel free to PM or email me.

[Soaring]

I have an ATI all-in-wonder radeon video card that has tv tuner in it and just watch TV on LCD montor of my computer, saves $ and space

[roguegeek]

the lamps last about 3ish years, and are around $300 a pop. Most places, like my store, or Best Buy, or Circuit City sell an extended warranty (we don't call them that, we call it a service or maintenance plan).. In the case of a projection TV, it's a good idea. Ours was $300 for 5 years of in home service, covering a yearly cleaning, bulbs, EVERY component of the TV (except cosmetics, i.e. scratches, chips, etc), and a no hassle guarantee (i.e., you call because you think something's wrong, we come out, even if nothing's wrong, you don't get charged a cent)... all with guaranteed in home service within 48 hours.

That's not a bad price for the service plan. Best Buy wanted close to $600 for their plan and didn't include a lot of what you were listing.

[Roadstergal]

I went with a CRT HDTV.  You can get a far better CRT for a given quantity of money than a plasma or LCD TV.  A friend of mine has a ~$1700 plasma, and my picture quality is better for under a grand.  Now, an ex-BF of mine did shell out several grand for a high-quality plasma, and it is absolutely fabulous; the crispness and color is unmatched in my experience, and with the audiophile-quality stereo system, it's better than the movie theaters.  But that's probably $10Kish in home theater.

[cobalt135]

Good info., thanks for taking the time to type all that.  I have a bad habit of spending more than I originally plan to.  I am already thinking about moving up to the 1,500-1,800 range   I am an impulsive buyer so if I find I want somthing I try to be sure that I REALLY want it.  I already know I am going to drop about $8,600 aprox. on an SV1Ks in a month or two... + a few mods no doubt.  Television is much less important than the motorcycle. :dunno:  Have to give it all some thought at work today I guess.

Thanks again!

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

I went with a CRT HDTV.  You can get a far better CRT for a given quantity of money than a plasma or LCD TV.  A friend of mine has a ~$1700 plasma, and my picture quality is better for under a grand.  Now, an ex-BF of mine did shell out several grand for a high-quality plasma, and it is absolutely fabulous; the crispness and color is unmatched in my experience, and with the audiophile-quality stereo system, it's better than the movie theaters.  But that's probably $10Kish in home theater.

If you want the best quality picture, CRT all the way. Nothing matches the color quality and resolution of a CRT. You don't get ANY pixelation or "screen door effect", and because you're actually combining the three primary colors, instead of using a color wheel, you get the truest blacks and whites. However, if you go CRT, that coverage that I mentioned is vital, as CRTs have a tendency to need alignment (part of our coverage is yearly alignments), cleaning (to remove dust from the CRTs, increases lifespan and picture quality, as well as cleaning the mirror the CRTs reflect off of), and the CRTs will usually last about 3-4 years, and EACH CRT is about $250. If you replace one CRT, you have to replace them ALL, so the $300 service plan is a fantastic idea. However, some people are limited by size, so CRT is not a possibility.

to roguegeek, we at HHGregg prided ourselves on our service versus Best Buy's service. Not only do we offer full coverage (Parts, labor, bulbs, yearly cleanings/alignments on CRTs, lightning/power surge damage, in home service for everything, service within 48 hours (usually, unless exceptionally busy)) but also, all the service that we provided was done by HHGregg technicians. We run the 4th largest service center in the US with nothing but HHG people, no farming out or subcontracting the work to Joe Schmoe down the street, it was all our people. I like to think we are the best, customer service wise.

to cobalt, we have about 12 stores in Ohio, if you go to HHGregg.com, you can put in your zip code, see if any are close enough to you, we have the best deals, but just in case, they do price match, and we actually have a 30 day price guarantee. So if you find the same thing that you bought for less (only requirement is that it's IN STOCK at the time, cuz a lot of places drop prices on stuff when they run out), we'll refund you the difference, any time within 30 days of your purchase. We also offer the best delivery in the business, if you should go with a larger, projection TV. For 49.99 (no tax) you get next day delivery (as long as it's in stock), or ANY day, that's right, we deliver 7 days a week. They will call you the morning of your delivery, give you a 3 hour window (say 12-3) that they'll be there, and then they'll call you again on your cellphone 40 minutes before they get there, so that you don't have to sit at home all day and wait for them. Delivery includes bringing the TV in, removing/disposing of your old TV, hooking the new TV up to cable/satellite and programming the channels, and also hooking it up to either a DVD player or a VCR. Sorry, not trying to turn this into an HHGregg ad, just thought you should know your options, and like I said, I think HHGregg has the best service/deals/options of any major retailer.

[roguegeek]

I have a bad habit of spending more than I originally plan to.  I am already thinking about moving up to the 1,500-1,800 range!

If you move up to that range instead, seriously consider the Samsung HL-R5067 or HL-R4667. They're the 1080i versions of the set I purchased. Pretty amazed at how much you get for the money when you consider image quality, amount of connections, and size. Amazon has the HL-R5067 on sale right now for $1,699.99. You'll have to add it to your cart to see the price. It's simply an incredible value at that price and I don't think there's anyone out there who could match it right now. They has decent built-in speakers too, but I don't use them. In fact, I haven't seen a set that can deliver the quality of sound a good component audio system can make. I'm using a 7.1 Onkyo system with THX processing. Monster Cables all around of course.

Oh, in that price range, don't forget about the Mitsubishi sets either.

[RVertigo]

Why spend $1200 on a TV, when you can spend $200 on a TV and $1000 on something worth while.

My sister has some over-priced plasma TV...  It's huge and hangs on her wall...  It does all kinds of fancy stuff that she doesn't need...

Movies are just as good on my TV.   :dunno:

[Badger]

I went with a CRT HDTV.  You can get a far better CRT for a given quantity of money than a plasma or LCD TV.

Me too.  I've got a sony xbr 910.  Of course, the newer (and now cheaper  :x ) ones come with built in HD tuners and cable card slots.  I think the newer sony model (xbr980?) is well under $2K now.  The only problems with the CRT are:

* They largest 16:9 you can get is 34" (although someone I know has an older model 38", they don't seem to be available anymore)
* They take up a lot of space in the rear, so they want to be in corners.
* They weigh a ton.  (well, not exactly a ton...but a lot; mine's about 220lbs.)

The picture is fantastic, though.  And the room I use it in isn't really big enough to support a 50"+ tv.  The CRT doesn't have limited viewing angles, and the picture doesn't wash out in the light.

[Badger]

My sister has some over-priced plasma TV...  It's huge and hangs on her wall...

Almost universally, people with wall mounts seem to hang them too high.  Makes it a pain in the neck (literally) to watch.

Movies are just as good on my TV.   :dunno:

So...I don't watch a lot of TV, nor do I watch a lot of DVD's.  For the longest time I just used the pos tv we got as a wedding gift.  I finally got the HD set when they started broadcasting Red Sox home games in HD (ironically, I was out of town for the entire playoffs and world series--they won, by the way--so I watched the whole thing on the crappy tv in my hotel room or in some random bar in Florida).  

All I can say about the TV's is:  there. is. no. comparison.  Even NTSC signals are better on my set (fancy electronic filters and such)...DVDs are unbelievable, and anything in HD is just rediculous.  I find it really hard to watch anything that's not in HD now.  I still don't watch much television, but appreciate it more now than I did with my old, crappy set.

Now if they'd just ship my damn xbox 360...

[RVertigo]

Oh, I know HDTV is really damn cool...  My sisters hung-too-high over-priced plasma is HD...  When I first heard it was HD, I immediately insisted on changing the channel to Discovery HD...    WHAO!!!

BUT!!!  There aren't enough HD shows to make it worth the money...  And watching regular TV on that thing doesn't look as good as watching it on my TV...  It's just too big, you can see all the flaws in the picture and it become distracting.

Once HD is totally common-place, I'll probably get one...  Just like a stereo TV and a DVD player.  5 years ago, I was still watching VHS on a 19" mono TV... :dunno:  When I got my new TV 3 years ago, pretty much nothing was HD and the cost difference wasn't worth it.  In 10 years when I get my next TV I'll probably be getting an HDTV instead of a SMFHDTV or something.   :dunno:

[roguegeek]

BUT!!!  There aren't enough HD shows to make it worth the money...

Really? I think there's totally enough things out there being broadcasted to justify the cost. On top of that (and these are the big ones for me), DVDs look a lot better and game consoles, especially my Xbox 360, are just beautiful on it. It's black and white in my eyes.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

BUT!!!  There aren't enough HD shows to make it worth the money...

Really? I think there's totally enough things out there being broadcasted to justify the cost. On top of that (and these are the big ones for me), DVDs look a lot better and game consoles, especially my Xbox 360, are just beautiful on it. It's black and white in my eyes.

Hey rogue, have you upgraded to an upconverting DVD player from Toshiba yet? I'm not familiar with the specs on the samsungs (we didn't sell them, as we had problems with the vendor), but if it's got HDMI, you can get a DVD player with HDMI output that upconverts your DVDs to 1080i, or if you've got DVI, you just get the same DVD player and an HDMI->DVI fitting... it's pretty sweet, we had it hooked up to a 55" Hitachi Plasma, and it looked nice.. but on a CRT or DLP, it looked even nicer!

[GeeP]

I have a $150 wal-mart TV.  Not much point in anything more, I only get three channels.   :lol:

Now, if I was going to spend $10,000 on a "home theater" I'd have a DP70.  The only downside is spending an hour splicing and reeling the film before watching.   :mrgreen:

[Badger]

BUT!!!  There aren't enough HD shows to make it worth the money...  And watching regular TV on that thing doesn't look as good as watching it on my TV...  It's just too big, you can see all the flaws in the picture and it become distracting.

That's a general problem with any large tv.  Like I said, mine is only 34" so I get a really crisp picture.  My set cleans the NTSC signal and generally looks much, much better than a standard television...but still looks like crap (compared to HD, DVD, or even digital channels).

You do bring up a good point, though...pick a tv based on what you're going to use it for.  If you're going to be mostly watching standard tv, make sure you check out how that signal looks on the set...does it look good stretched?  Does it look too grainy?  Check out the different 'zoom' modes.  Any set can make a high definition picture look good...a key differentiator for 'higher quality' sets is how they handle crappy standard signals.  Most retail stores will just keep a dvd running or tune all the sets to Dicsoverly HD...of course it looks good in the store.  Have them tune it to a standard broadcast channel (they might not be able to...but ask them anyway) to see the "worst case" before you fall in love with the tv.

As for HD programming...We get like 15 HD channels over cable, so I get pretty much most of what I'm interested in.  Red Sox (all home games, many road games), Bruins (home games), most football games, and a handful of movie channels in HD, ESPN and Discovery, plus all the major networks, whose prime time programming is more or less all in HD now (although I don't watch that much prime time tv)

I think one key indicator that the "HD transformation" is really picking up steam is that I see more and more commercials in HD these days.

[Gisser]

Can a person buy a decent 52-to-60 inch widescreen HDTV for $2000 or would he need to spend a few dollars more?

I want one.   Tell me what to buy!

:dunno:

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Can a person buy a decent 52-to-60 inch widescreen HDTV for $2000 or would he need to spend a few dollars more?

I want one.   Tell me what to buy!

:dunno:

Sure ya can! In that price range and that size, you're gonna be looking at a CRT rear projection. My recommendations are Hitachi, Mitsubishi, and Toshiba, in that order. You can get a NICE Hitachi 57" for that. I remember when we used to sell a 55" Mitsubishi with the 5 year coverage for about $1800 or so. Like I said before, if you go CRT, depending on where you buy it, the service/coverage is usually a good idea. but always find out EXACTLY what is and is not covered before you buy. Not everyone's plan is as comprehensive as ours was. A lot of places offer 18 months no interest with minimum monthly payments too. Also, if you go with Hitachi, Toshiba, or Mitsubishi, and the price is a little high, you can always ask em for a reasonable discount, as those TVs have the highest margins of any projection TV sold. In projo TVs, stay away from Philips/Magnavox, Sony, and RCA. Also, if they're telling you that you need some cables/surge protectors/etc, they're usually telling the truth. If you want the best possible picture/audio, the cables they recommend are a good idea. HOWEVER, there is usually a lower grade of cable that they can offer that will still be of superior quality, without the hefty price tag. When they offer you the $200 or $300 surge protector, it's a good idea, but they usually have a VERY nice one for about $100.. it's what I use on my 23" LCD. Also, accessories, such as cables, surge protectors, etc, have HIGH, HIGH margins.. so if you want some cables, or a surge, but that would put you over budget, you CAN ask for them to bargain a little bit. A common thing I would do is offer my customers 10% off their accessories. The best thing for you, as the consumer to do is to figure out EVERYTHING, TV, Service, Cables, Surge Protector, DVD player, whatever else, delivery, EVERYTHING, and see how much it would cost. If you're happy with the price, great! If you're not, speak up. DO NOT SAY "What can you do for me on price?" THE SINGLE MOST ANNOYING THING A SALESPERSON CAN HEAR!!!!! Instead, come up with something. Say, "If you can do all this for X amount, or for X amount off, I'll buy it right now." That gives the salesperson something to go to their manager with. Then it's simple. The manager will either OK the deal immediately, or come back with a counter offer. BE REASONABLE IN WHAT YOU REQUEST. If the manager makes you a counter offer, and it's only $50 or so higher than what you originally requested, take it! Sorry to get long winded, but I figured I'd help since I used to sell the things. WHATEVER YOU DO, BE POLITE TO THE SALESPERSON. If the manager tells them that there's nothing they can do, then there is NOTHING THAT THEY CAN DO. If there just isn't enough a profit in a deal, a manager will turn it down, and tell the customer to go elsewhere, because, for the most part, EVERY retailer pays close to the same amount for the same kind of TV. Hope this helps, feel free to email/PM me for more info.

[Gisser]

...snip...

Wow.  That's everything I needed to know, and then some!  I will take all of that advice.  You really are a niceguy and I doubt you ever  finish last.