First track day & crashed the '04 (Good pic 2-16)

[poormanracing]

Is it just me, or does it look like I'm almost at the edge of the tire's limit in that third pic? It looks like it's right up to the edge on the rear wheel, or am I just seeing things wrong?

Anyone know where I can get a new tank?    

yeah..you are.... at least you got rid of the chicken strips!

[Alphamazing]

I'm just thinking that might be a reason why I felt my back end getting slippery: no more tire.

[scratch]

The first photo seems to have you at the greatest lean angle. I think you could lean it over more. At least 47 degrees. You're not even touching peg!

[pantablo]

I'm just thinking that might be a reason why I felt my back end getting slippery: no more tire.

not necessarily. you can ride what looks like the edge quite a bit. if your tire pressure was too high (you did lower it to about 30psi, right?), and the tires were in good shape, and are sticky tires you should have been fine.

look at this pic:
notice my rear is pretty much on the edge, or thereabouts.


then look at this, much more lean angle, still on the edge of the tire, just less contact patch overall. lower pressure allows a bigger contact patch on the ground.


here's me from a couple trackdays prior to the above pictures. I know, its tiny...but you can still see how badly I'm crossed up too. After I saw these I started to work almost exclusively on getting myself over properly. still working on it.



{yes, shameless photo whoring}

I always buy the photos so I can see what I'm doing and work on things I'm not getting right the next time.

[Alphamazing]

Don't feel bad about photo whoring. I'm taking notes, man! :lol: I totally see what you mean about being crossed up. Soon as the bike gets street worthy I'm going to work on that.

I'm buying my pictures as well so I can say, "Hey, look what I can do", as well as to track my progress and critique myself.

I'm getting a 10x15 print of the third shot so I can remind myself to fix my problems. Well, that and to show people and say, "Isn't that f%$king awesome?"

My rear pressure was a little over 30, I think I was at 33, as suggested by a few people out there. Think that might be why my back end felt sloppy? Trying to evaluate everything so that I can prevent any mishaps in the futre. I also just want to learn about this stuff.

[poormanracing]

like scratch says about your hands...also, when in the turn keep your hands off the levers! You dont need brakes mid turn (shouldnt) and you dont need clutch for sure. palm the outside hand is a good way to think about it-I can usually take my hand completelly off the outside grip but choose to keep it loosely on it. the outside hand isnt really doing anything when turning.

OMG...i just reviewed my other SOW pix my finger are covering the brake all the time...i just remembered i got spooked when a 2 stroker passed me while in the "bowl"..i pressed the brake midturn...lemme say, i learn my lesson and try not to do that again...

[Alphamazing]

I cover my brake out of habit from street riding. I don't use it in turns, but it's a habit. I've even gotten used to controlling the throttle very well without my index and middle fingers. I should work on changing that, shouldn't I?

[poormanracing]

i guess just on track riding...but yeah street riding covering brakes is good :dunno:

[pantablo]

I cover my brake out of habit from street riding. I don't use it in turns, but it's a habit. I've even gotten used to controlling the throttle very well without my index and middle fingers. I should work on changing that, shouldn't I?

yeah, I'd kill that habit on the track. you only really have to worry about the left lever and only when you're approaching the turn, setting up and slowing down. once you're ready to do your turn-in forget all about that brake. only think about accelerating. Hell, the only time I use the clutch lever is to do my downshifts approaching the turns...

just like its a habit to cover it, its a habit to use it if you get spooked...like celica there did.

[pantablo]

...I'm buying my pictures as well so I can say, "Hey, look what I can do", as well as to track my progress and critique myself.
Well, that and to show people and say, "Isn't that f%$king awesome?"

dotn feel bad. me too.

...My rear pressure was a little over 30, I think I was at 33, as suggested by a few people out there. Think that might be why my back end felt sloppy? .

I think its a little high for the track. I run about that pressure on the street (only canyon riding) and drop to about 30 on the track. the reason you do that is because at the higher speeds, higher loads the tire sees it expands more from the heat. so if you're starting out at 33 its 36+ when up to temp. The idea behind lowering the temp is so that after it expands its still about 33. so you always check them cold, and you dont adjust throughout the day (because they've warmed up).

Michelin Pilot Power tires are the exception. Their sidewall construction is so soft that you can run a little higher...or so say the michelin reps. I tested it and its true. not only that, the tire doesnt look all thrashed afterwards...okay, that eliminates some bragging though...

[Alphamazing]

I'm thinking about getting Pilot Powers after the Sport Demons wear out. Do you think that stickier, wider tires might help me at the track? All the reviews of them on here are for streetability.

[pantablo]

they are definitely stickier but they're not suited for the stock gs wheel width and you'll really feel the difference at the track-bike will want to fall in when really leaned over. thats enough to scare the crap out of you. the reason is because the tire gets a bit pinched on the too-narrow-for-150 rim. when you get cranked over onto the "edge" of the tire you have a smaller contact patch than if you had a proper size tire.

[Alphamazing]

I was thinking about what you said about trying to get my forearm on the tank for support as well, and I realized that I couldn't have done that with the setup I had, I don't think. The bars were so high and wide, and my arms so long, that trying to get my forearm on the tank would have required countersteering to full lock. That's a bit too flat trackerish for me, and I don't think I could pull that.

I keep thinking about the tire pressure thing too, and I think it's possible that the higher pressure could have made the back end a bit more slippery than I'm used to.

So, things I've learned:

Run tires at about 29F/30R
Position my upper body off the bike more to avoid getting "crossed up"
Inside foot on the frame/heel guard to avoid putting pressure on the inside peg
Keep the wrists down
Don't grip the bars so tightly, think about palming the outside one instead
Do NOT cover the break in a turn. Ever.
Pivot around the tank, as if I'm "kissing the mirrors"
Support yourself with the outside leg and forearm
Be sure to look towards the exit line or the entrance to the next turn
Try and get my chest down more (easier with lower bars, I'd assume)
Don't put a lot of pressure on the puck because it can cause the back end to become unloaded
Take it easy for a few laps to let your tires get fully warm
Don't try to push yourself too early in the day
Be sure to get junk bodywork in time so that your nice stuff doesn't get messed up
Make sure you're not sick and can fully concentrate on riding
Take everything in stride and learn from mistakes
Take criticism and evaluate it so you can fully learn from the experience
Invest in a wider rear rim so I can fit supersport rubber :lol:
Track days are addicting
Crashing sucks
[/list:u]

[scratch]

Go sit on the bike and position yourself like you are in a corner. For left hand turns put the bike on the centerstand, rearstand or trackstand. For right-hand put the bike on the sidestand. You should position your head such that if you looked down you would see your hand. Practice your body position. It helps.

You learn well, grasshopper...kudos to you.

[Alphamazing]

Wait, don't you mean for left hand turns put it on the side stand? So I'm already leaning? Or am I working on moving more than the lean angle itself?

[scratch]

Good catch. This is garage practice. I forgot which side the sidestand is. It's on the port side (left), correct? So, that would be for a left turn...okay, I got my bearings back. Carry on.

[ginoe]

me too!

pics explain a lot (very helpful for me)

...I'm taking notes, man! :lol: ...

[Alphamazing]

More pictures! Gear is towards the bottom.

She's prepped and ready. I kinda like the look like that, actually.


Loaded up and ready to head out.


The jacket. You can see the minor scrape on the elbow and the heavier ones around the straps at the waist


The pants. Hole in the crotch needs to be fixed. Going to wipe it down with a leather cleaner and try to get some of the abraisions out.


Right knee. Wore the leather through to the armor.


Left knee, not as bad. Still need to get them fixed somehow.


Left boot. Took off a layer of leather at the toes and a couple of scrapes on the inside. I'll redye it black after cleaning them up a bit.


Right boot. Scrapes along the outer toes and the tip of the toe. I'll clean it up and redye it. It's still useable.


Pictures of the bike will come later. They're on my dad's camera at home.

[scratch]

Okay, now I see a sideshot of your bars, and yes they are rotated way too far up and forward.

Okay, and I have an update on the inside foot placement, only put your foot against teh frame if you can still point your knee into the turn. This is why I want you to go out to your bike and practice your body position on the bike.

[Alphamazing]

I've got long arms. When they're back further it feels uncomfortable, too upright. When I get the position I do like my arms are way too bent. I'm getting better bars soon.