Ram Air on a GS ?????

[falcon0321]

Has anyone designed or though up a way to get ram air on a GS?

I'm trying to think of a good way to do it and would like some other opinions.

Thanks

[bulletproofcycle]

I heard somewhere that ram air can damage the engine if it is not set up properly.  

I was going to put some scoops to create ram air but after a little investigating it looked to be too much of a hassle and worry.

[werase643]

why?

R.A. is a marketing tool....

no real effect until 100-120 mph

[that_guy]

why?

R.A. is a marketing tool....

no real effect until 100-120 mph

werd, speaks the truth..

[Blueknyt]

no real effect until 100-120 mph

true for most part, Ram air doesnt really work below a certain airspeed. its basicly a funnel that scoops air and crams itself down the intake track.  its also very dependant on DISPLACEMENT.   smaller engines dont need quite as much forward speed (airspeed) as they dont breath as much.   take a moped (peddle type) intake carb faces the back of the bike, turn it around and put a scoop on it, sure dirt will get in but so will alot more air  after about 25mph and its a noticable differnce.

the biggest problem is jetting ram air isnt allways a constant and really works better on FI then carb engines to keep the mixture right.  the same principles apply if you were using a turbo with low boost, say 3lbs you still have to seal area;s of the carbs or vents into airbox,  the low boost from ram air might not need a fuel pump to overcome the airpressure pushing the fuel back up the line but then again, it might , then your talking pressure regulation as well.

you could do it, and it might show some gains but not sure it would be worth the headache of trying to figure out the fuel curve needed for a CV carb. FI would be alot easyer for sure

[JamesG]

Ram air works.  It effects intake charge at ANY airspeed but starts to have its most impact at higher airspeeds.  It doesn't increase air flow so much as increases the air pressure within the airbox so that the intake stroke draws more mix.

The tricky part is that there is a 10% or so in volumn between 0 airspeed and max effect. Jetting for that difference is the hard part. Jetting for that can be hard and one of the reasons carbed bikes were rare or had elaborate intake plumbing to compensate.

The GS is difficult to rig for ram air because its an aircooled side draft engine. The ramair can't block the cooling air to the engine. You have to get high velocity air around the engine and into the airbox.  I've thought might beable to place a scoop under the forks and run a duct up over the cylinder agains t the tank and into the airbox.  Never got around to trying it, but it should be doable.

['04gs500f]

perhaps a k&n lunchbox would be better worth your time, I'd place my money on the fact that ram air would not surpass the noticeable difference on a GS as a lunchbox would....

[JamesG]

tuned properly, you would loose your money.

[falcon0321]

R.A. is a marketing tool....

no real effect until 100-120 mph

Your a Marketing Tool.   Im  Joking!!!    

Ram air is not just a marketing tool.   Here is a example:  The honda CBR 600 F2 does not have ram air. The F3 does.  When comparing the two bikes,  the F3 walks all over the F2.  Same displacement...  The F2 is lacking so much power that is can be compared to an SV650.  

Im sure there are other improvements to the motor that contributed to this but not that many.     It is like comparing an Carborated motor to a bike with F. I.  There isnt much comparison.  

Why do people port and polish heads?  To get air in/out of the cylender faster.   Any pressure pushing air into the cylenders will help.  Hence the compression gets higher and with the right jetting... More power.

Will it be much help?  I dont know.   I do know that it will help some. It is on my race bike and any increase in performance will help.    The only thing that I know is that EX500's and Monster 620 have about 10 HP on the GS and anything that I can do to decreas that gap I will do.

[dgyver]

Just routing a pair of hoses from the front to supply cooler air would be a benefit over sucking hot air off the motor. How much benefit...dunno?

[werase643]

[quote="falcon0321" ]


 The only thing that I know is that EX500's and Monster 620 have about 10 HP on the GS and anything that I can do to decreas that gap I will do.[/quote]

10 hp in your dreams
try 15-25

ever wonder why ram air was used by kawasaki first.....
they built airplane engines....
you gunna need a big friggin airbox
and a straight shot from the high pressure point to the big friggin air box
also need to pressurize the carbs and fuel tank
or get a fuel pump

lots of R & D there skippy.....
but hey bust a nut if you want

[GeeP]

The "ram" effect at 100MPH is equivalent to about 4.94" WC at standard atmosphere and water density.  That's about .17 PSI.  

Total power increase assuming zero loss would be on the order of 1.1%.  Now, ram effect increases as the square of the change in airspeed.  Double the airspeed, quadruple the ram effect.  At 200 MPH, the ram effect is about .68 PSI.  Total power increase:  about 4.6%.  Still no substitute for a turbo or blower.

Best case I could see a power gain of 5% over the stock configuration with careful design.  i.e. not much more than the K&N lunchbox.  You wouldn't see anything under 100MPH though.

[JamesG]

Do you have a reference for your figures?

Not that I don't believe you, but yours are a bit... pessimistic than those I've seen.

[werase643]

oh yeah baby i want to see a gs go 200mph....with a 5 % increase in power.....

[falcon0321]

10 hp in your dreams
try 15-25

Im pushing 53 HP as I sit right now.  Ive race 2 seasons on this motor and it has no signs of letting go yet.

2 mil over high comp pistons, cams, shaved head, timing, K&N pod filter, V&H oval, ...

[falcon0321]

The "ram" effect at 100MPH is equivalent...

Not to bust your balls or anything but do you know or could you figure out what that would relate to compression changes?   (As in 130psi  increase to 140psi with ram air...)

[werase643]

Up to 120 mph when the boost hits 20mb, we're only talking about the odd bhp. From then on it gets progressively stronger. As the effect is speed relative, it's at its most pronounced at very high velocities; the faster you go, the stronger the boost. But, hey, how many of you ride at 150 mph on the street? Never mind, don't answer that.


and this is on a 125 HP zx-9.....

other article below....
4-7 hp gains on 600-1300cc bikes.....translateed to a GS......at 38-42hp
back to my first response.....why?
....1- 1.5 HP MAX!!!!!


i did a quick search....

http://sportrider.com/tech/146_9910_ram/

http://sportrider.com/tech/146_9912_ram/

http://sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/

[Roadstergal]

4-7 hp gains on 600-1300cc bikes

Ja, so when a bike of that size is racing in superbike, seeing 100+ a lot, and you're not allowed to turbo... and 5hp will make a difference... it makes sense.  Beyond, well, as you say.  

[falcon0321]

back to my first response.....why?
....1- 1.5 HP MAX!!!!!

Racing.  Riding ability can carry you only so much.  When your talking about a bike with lets say 40 Hp, thats 2.5-3.75 % increase in power.   That is a pretty good jump.

[werase643]

4-7 hp gains on 600-1300cc bikes

Ja, so when a bike of that size is racing in superbike, seeing 100+ a lot, and you're not allowed to turbo... and 5hp will make a difference... it makes sense.  Beyond, well, as you say.  

it makes no diff when everybody is doing it....
heck they don't even advertise it anymore, do they? :dunno: