New chain and lubed clutch cable -- now transmission won't shift!

[Admiral Crunch]

I've been giving my GS a top-to-bottom servicing.  I replaced the drive chain and front sprocket, and I lubed the clutch cable.  I've now got the bike put back together, but I can't shift out of neutral!  I've tried rolling the drive wheel around and shifting, but no matter what I do, the sift lever refuses to move the bike out of neutral, either into 1st or into 2nd.

I don't know if I haven't re-installed something properly, or if my clutch cable is mis-adjusted or what.

I'm not exactly sure how pulling the clutch cable is supposed to disengage the clutch.  The book explains how to take it apart and put it back together, but not how it's supposed to work.     The clutch cable comes down through and behind the sproket cover, and it connects to a spring-loaded swingarm.  The center of the pivot for the swingarm goes down over a metal rod that slides down into a hole (the clutch pushrod, I think it's called).  I see that when the swingarm pivots up, the pivot moves away from the sprocket cover.  Is this thing pushing on that rod, and is that what engages the clutch?  I can't push that rod anywhere by hand, but it might just be very tight.  If I pull the clutch lever with the sprocket cover not bolted down, it pushes the cover away fom the bike, so I assume that's what's supposed to be going on, but I just wanted to make sure here.

Could it be that I have too much free-play and that the clutch isn't engaging enough?  As far as I can tell, the free-play is adjusted to spec, unless I'm not measuring it properly.  I adjusted the clutch cable so that the lever pulls 1 centimeter before it starts moving the cable.  Then I have normal-feeling resistance for the rest of the pull.  I'm measuring the 1 cm of free-play by measuring the movement of the ball-end of the clutch lever.  Is that correct?

Thanks for any help!!

[scratch]

Yes, either the cable adjustment is off, or too loose, or the rod didn't thread into the mechanism when you put the cover back on.

You described exactly how the clutch rod, and the mechanism that actuates it, works.

[MarkusN]

You assessment of the workings of the clutch is correct. (One minor point though: pulling the clutch lever / pushing the rod in disengages the clutch. Power train connected - engaged, Power train disconnected - disengaged.) Resistance of the clutch springs is high, you couldn't push that rod in manually.

It doesn't sound as if your clutch was not adjusted properly; the travels sound about right, and if you have normal resistance at the clutch lever the clutch should be disengaging.

So you tried shifting without the motor running, and played around at the rear wheel? If it doesn't shift in that case it doesn't sound like a clutch problem. The clutch plays no role whatsoever in this scenario. What's the feel of the shift lever? Normal travel? Do you feel resistance?

[scratch]

You think you installed the shift lever too close to the cover?

Also, to answer your question about the clutch lever adjustment, yes, 1cm of play at the ball end of the lever.  Personally, I go for 1mm of play at the leading edge of the clutch lever and clutch perch at the tightest point (handlebars turned full left).

[runsilent]

Did you adjust clutch cable completely at all three places of adjustment?  If the clutch rod freeplay adjustment is off the clutch will not be released completely.  It's located behind the little cover with 2 screws on the outside of the front sprocket cover.

First screw adjustment at clutch lever in all the way and loosen the cable locknut at sprocket cover end and screw cable in there too so there is much freeplay.  Remove the little cover and loosen the 10 mm locknut inside and use screwdriver to screw in adjustment screw till all freeplay is gone and back it off 1/4 turn and lockdown the locknut.  Leave adjustment at handlebar all the way in and tighten locknut for future minor freeplay adjustments.  Make final freeplay adjustment on cable at sprocket cover end and lock down.

A little too much freeplay in the rod adjustment can loose a lot of travel of the rod to release the clutch.

[Admiral Crunch]

You assessment of the workings of the clutch is correct. (One minor point though: pulling the clutch lever / pushing the rod in disengages the clutch. Power train connected - engaged, Power train disconnected - disengaged.)

Yeah, I knew that.  Got it right once, but I said it backwards for the rest of my post.  Oops.

So you tried shifting without the motor running, and played around at the rear wheel? If it doesn't shift in that case it doesn't sound like a clutch problem. The clutch plays no role whatsoever in this scenario. What's the feel of the shift lever? Normal travel? Do you feel resistance?

Yes, the motor was not running, and I spun the rear wheel to several positions, while trying to move the shift lever up or down.  As best I can tell, the lever didn't move its full travel, and it felt like when the gears aren't lined up properly or you're trying to shift without the clutch.  So you're saying that even without pulling the clutch at all, I should be able to change gears in my situation?

[Admiral Crunch]

You think you installed the shift lever too close to the cover?

That's a possibilty, I think.  But isn't there a groove that the pinch bolt lays in while it's installed?  Wouldn't that force the lever to be at a cartain distance?  I could be wrong though.  I'll definitely double-check that when i get home.

[Admiral Crunch]

Did you adjust clutch cable completely at all three places of adjustment?  If the clutch rod freeplay adjustment is off the clutch will not be released completely.  It's located behind the little cover with 2 screws on the outside of the front sprocket cover.  A little too much freeplay in the rod adjustment can loose a lot of travel of the rod to release the clutch.

This might just be my problem.  I have a copy of the Haynes manual at my office on my PC, and I looked again.  There was no mention of the clutch rod adjustment in the procedure for setting the clutch cable freeplay, but it was there in the section on installing a clutch cable.  I missed it.  I didn't make any changes to that adjustment in any of my work, though.  I never removed that cover with the two screws.  But there was a ton of sludge and gunk cemented all over the pushrod that I cleaned off.  I wonder if doing that might have thrown the adjustment off?  I'll go through your adjustment procedure and see if that makes a difference.

[Admiral Crunch]

or the rod didn't thread into the mechanism when you put the cover back on.

Not sure what you meant here.  Are you talking about the pushrod?  It doesn't seem to have any threads.

[MarkusN]

Yes, the motor was not running, and I spun the rear wheel to several positions, while trying to move the shift lever up or down. As best I can tell, the lever didn't move its full travel, and it felt like when the gears aren't lined up properly or you're trying to shift without the clutch. So you're saying that even without pulling the clutch at all, I should be able to change gears in my situation?

Not quite like that. When you load the shift lever and spin the rear wheel at the same time at some point the gear should shift. Just trying several positions doesn't guarantee you catch one where shifting is possible.

Did you adjust clutch cable completely at all three places of adjustment?  If the clutch rod freeplay adjustment is off the clutch will not be released completely.  It's located behind the little cover with 2 screws on the outside of the front sprocket cover. A little too much freeplay in the rod adjustment can loose a lot of travel of the rod to release the clutch.

This might just be my problem. I have a copy of the Haynes manual at my office on my PC, and I looked again. There was no mention of the clutch rod adjustment in the procedure for setting the clutch cable freeplay, but it was there in the section on installing a clutch cable. I missed it. I didn't make any changes to that adjustment in any of my work, though. I never removed that cover with the two screws. But there was a ton of sludge and gunk cemented all over the pushrod that I cleaned off. I wonder if doing that might have thrown the adjustment off? I'll go through your adjustment procedure and see if that makes a difference.

In the end all three adjustments do the same thing: they regulate which position of the clutch lever corresponds to which position of the clutch. As long as you are not at the very end of the operating angle of the angular-to-axial-movement thingamajig it should not be necessary to adjust anything there.

Completely different topic: Chain slack? how much? Could it be that an extremely tight chain is loading the gearbox bearing and maiking turning it hard?

[Admiral Crunch]

Not quite like that. When you load the shift lever and spin the rear wheel at the same time at some point the gear should shift. Just trying several positions doesn't guarantee you catch one where shifting is possible.

Gotcha.  No, I don't think I tried that.  I will tonight.

In the end all three adjustments do the same thing: they regulate which position of the clutch lever corresponds to which position of the clutch. As long as you are not at the very end of the operating angle of the angular-to-axial-movement thingamajig it should not be necessary to adjust anything there.

Completely different topic: Chain slack? how much? Could it be that an extremely tight chain is loading the gearbox bearing and maiking turning it hard?

I'm kind of hoping that is my problem, so it's easy to fix at least.  But if nothing here fixes it, I'm not sure what I'll need to do next.  Hopefully, I won't have to find out.

The chain has been adjusted to spec as best as I can tell.  It moves more on the centerstand than the sidestand.  On the sidestand, it moves just a hair less than 1 inch up and down.  That's pulling up and down.  That's at the tightest spot.  Am I supposed to measure the max distance from pulled-up to pulled-down or from pulled-up to hanging-free?

[Admiral Crunch]

.

[Mandres]

Am I supposed to measure the max distance from pulled-up to pulled-down or from pulled-up to hanging-free?

That's a good question, I'd like to know also.

-M

[scratch]

Chain slack: total slack in both directions, on a warm chain, on the sidestand.

Well, I just meant that the clutch pushrod be aligned into the hole of the actuating mechanism.

or the rod didn't thread into the mechanism when you put the cover back on.

Not sure what you meant here.  Are you talking about the pushrod?  It doesn't seem to have any threads.

[Admiral Crunch]

Okay, I've gotten home and tried a few things, and here's what I have to report:

Without pulling in the clutch, and with pressure applied to the shifter lever, the bike goes into gear when I roll the rear wheel to the correct position.  At that point, the shifter moves up and down through the gears normally.

I then shifted the bike into first gear.  With the clutch lever not pulled, the rear wheel clunks back and forth in gear as expected.  When I pull in the clutch lever, this does not change.  Still clunking.  I shift to neutral, and it spins freely.  Back to first, and clunk, clunk whether the clutch lever is pulled in or not.

I then tried runsilent's advice and adjusted the screw under the little plate on the sprocket cover.  I adjusted at the top of the sprocket cover and at the lever for max freeplay.  I then started screwing in on the adjust screw.  Even all the way down, I still had freeplay in the clutch cable, although a little less.  Did you mean freeplay in the clutch cable or tightness in the adjust screw, runsilent?

I noticed that with the screw turns freely when out more, but as you turn in, it suddenly gets harder, but it continues in.  The Haynes manual says to adjust in until hard resistance is felt, then back out a 1/4 to 1/2 turn.  I assumed they mean where the resistance starts.  I wouldn't call it hard resistance, though.  but that's where I tried it.  I backed out 1/4 turn and locked the locknut down.  Then I adjusted the cable for proper freeplay.

No change.  Pulling the clutch in still will not allow the rear wheel to spin free.  So I started again and tried it with the adjust screw turned in several turns further.  I tried it with the nut turned a few turns out into the free-turning zone.  No change.  I tried both of those with a more freeplay, and with no freeplay at all and with the cable tight.  Still no change.

I'm stumped at this point.  Is my next step pulling the clutch apart?  It was working just fine right before I removed the clutch cable and sprocket cover to change my chain.   

[mjm]

Wet clutch transmissions, when cold, have a lot of "stiction" and friction - it is NORMAL for there to still be somewhat of a connection between the engine and gearbox when the clutch is pulled.  As the engine warms and the oil thins the friction become substantially less - but it is still there a bit.

Put the bike in neutal, start it up, pull in the clutch (after making sure you followed the adjustment proceedure) and see if it will go into gear.

If it does, you are fine.  If not, take a look at that installing the clutch part of the manual again.

[Admiral Crunch]

THANK YOU.  I didn't bother trying it with the bike running because I was sure something was wrong.  I re-did my adjustments (in all three places) to the standard spec, and it worked perfectly.  I guess that tiny little lurch I always feel when I pop it into gear is the clutch plates un-sticking.  That's all it took!

Thank you everyone for your help!!  And it's just as well, too, because that adjustment screw behind the little cover wasn't adjusted just right.  It was off by about a turn.