Straight rate or progressive rate springs - Which do you prefer?

[Toledo Jim]

My question regards relying mostly on manucturers information:

Why would anyone expect a company that makes and sells any product, springs included, to say that a competitors (Progressive) is better for any application?

As to which I would (and did) go with? Progressive.

For others, I believe it depends on the primary use of the bike:

primarily: track - highly aggressive - other specialized app type riding = straight rate tuned to the rider,

primarily: beginner - normal street type riding - play in the twistys once in a while - devoloping your skills type stuff = progressive.

Remembering that the GS500 is aimed mainly at the entry level / beginner / street type rider, by the time most people begin to approach the point that they can take advantage of the difference they either get a different more suitable bike, or stay with the GS just because they like it. (And most that move on, do so for other reasons than they have come anywhere close to the limits of the GS500)

But what do I know?  (57 yrs old and I have only been riding a motorcycle for a year.) 

[Wrecent_Wryder]

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[Wrecent_Wryder]

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[Alphamazing]

I think we've all gotten your position on it. I'm keeping an open mind, I'm just not persuaded yet.

However, just repeatedly stating something as fact doesn't make it true, and doesn't really add credence to the position advocated.

I feel I've backed up my position fairly well with the evidence I've put forth.

[Gisser]

Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding something- it happens- but the springs are compressed when you put them in the tubes (screw the caps in place), no? The longer the spacer, the more they're compressed when you put them in the tubes. That is pre-load as far as the springs are concerned, even if it's not by your definition- works exactly the same as the cam on the rear shock. So- the INITIAL rate of the springs (for the first mm of travel) IN USE is higher than the spring tested on it's own, and depends on the length of the spacer. So long as there's some compression of the spring in the tube, the initial rate in use will never be as low as .51 kg/mm.

It's just a matter of using some visualization and it's good that you bring-up the rear shock preload adjustment for comparison because everything's out in the open where you can see it.  You can measure the length of the spring on the shock at its lowest setting (with a rider aboard).  Now crank-up the preload to the "firmest" setting (#4?) and  remeasure the spring in similar fashion.  There will be no change....there will be no additional compression of the spring....no extra rise in rate to overcome.  The only difference will be a gain in suspension travel and a gain in seat height.  It's all visualization; there is no actual preload to overcome if the suspension is already sagging.      

[RVertigo]

Hey Alpha...  How long did you ride your GS with progressive springs?

And... How do each (Higher Rate) Straight and Progressive handle in the rain?

[Alphamazing]

Hey Alpha...  How long did you ride your GS with progressive springs?

And... How do each (Higher Rate) Straight and Progressive handle in the rain?

I didn't even bother with progressives, which I guess makes my comparissons based solely on what others who HAVE tried both have to say. Pretty much anyone who does agressive riding, track days, and the whatnot, say straight is the way to go without question.

[RVertigo]

I just want to stop bottoming out my forks whenever I quick stop or hit a bump...  You should hear the noise when I'm stopping AND hit a bump.

[Alphamazing]

I just want to stop bottoming out my forks whenever I quick stop or hit a bump...  You should hear the noise when I'm stopping AND hit a bump.

I could bottom the forks just sitting there and pushing down on the forks. You're ~185, right? Your reccomended spring rate is .805. The progressives have .51 to .8 spring rates, so your "reccomended" rate would be at the end of the travel of the progressive, which typically can't be reached due to the limitations of suspension travel.

[scratch]

The Progressives, for me, would push the front tire out from under me, when riding in the rain, they would become too stiff (suggested spring rate for me is .715kg/mm).  The .51kg/mm coils are used up quickly both in preload/sag and while braking; there are only about 3 inches of this spring rate, which being at the tightly wound end, quickly become a solid spacer when compressed, and then you're on the .8kg/mm spring rate of the rest of the spring.  I found this unsatisfactory, and have since gone back to the stock straight rate springs (with added preload) which are a little soft for me, but suit my rain-riding style nicely.

[Alphamazing]

The Progressives, for me, would push the front tire out from under me, when riding in the rain, they would become too stiff (suggested spring rate for me is .715kg/mm).  The .51kg/mm coils are used up quickly both in preload/sag and while braking; there are only about 3 inches of this spring rate, which being at the tightly wound end, quickly become a solid spacer when compressed, and then you're on the .8kg/mm spring rate of the rest of the spring.  I found this unsatisfactory, and have since gone back to the stock straight rate springs (with added preload) which are a little soft for me, but suit my rain-riding style nicely.

Bingo. Since you ride in the rain so much, the softer spring rate for you is much better (straight rate matched for your weight and riding style) than the progressive rate springs. It would be MORE ideal if you could get, say, a .6 kg/mm straight rate spring.

For me, I ride in very hot, very dry weather for the most of the time. My riding style is also fairly agressive at times, which means the increased spring rate is more ideal for me.

[Jazzzzz]

I could bottom the forks just sitting there and pushing down on the forks. You're ~185, right? Your reccomended spring rate is .805. The progressives have .51 to .8 spring rates, so your "reccomended" rate would be at the end of the travel of the progressive, which typically can't be reached due to the limitations of suspension travel.

I weight 185 and have no problem with street riding on the Progressive Suspension springs that were recommended left and right on this board until recently.  I've not run into the issues that Scratch describes either, but I outweigh him by quite a bit which likely explains the difference.  Since installing the progressives and spacers I never run out of fork travel (a very common occurrence on the stock springs) and the bike handles very predictably, even riding two up with my wife on board pushing the bike's load over 300lbs.

Yes, if you're riding track days frequently or spend most of your time railing corners in the twisties, I'd say spend the extra cash on the racetech springs and emulators, but the progressive springs do just fine for street riding with occasional agressive riding.  I'd go so far as to say that 90% of riders out there don't have the skills to take advantage of the improvements offered by straight rate springs over progressive rate springs, not including the junk springs that come on the GS stock.

[domas]

What about instaling larger spacers on original springs. I know this is very cheap mod compared to replacement springs, but maybe anyone can give their opinion. Won't the springs bottom out themselves?

[scratch]

Like zis?: http://www.gstwin.com/making_fork_spacers.htm

While it does compress the springs more, I don't think you'll bottom out the springs before the forks do; I certainly haven't experienced that, even under maximum braking.

[fordtech]

It feels like springtime with all this talk im hearing,but seriouly sounds like good points on both sides,i guess it al depends on  what you want your bike to ride like,and what kind of riding you do.

[galahs]

What are peoples opinion about just adding spacers to the stock springs?

Does it stiffen up the front end nicely. I'm only just starting to notice how soft the front end is on this bike when stock.

[Egaeus]

What are peoples opinion about just adding spacers to the stock springs?

Does it stiffen up the front end nicely. I'm only just starting to notice how soft the front end is on this bike when stock.

From what I've read, it works better if you're on a serious budget, but you're better off with new springs. 

[Alphamazing]

What are peoples opinion about just adding spacers to the stock springs?

Does it stiffen up the front end nicely. I'm only just starting to notice how soft the front end is on this bike when stock.

The springs still have the same spring rate, so it'll still be soft in the sense of compressing the springs (will take the same amount of force as before).

[galahs]

It sucks being in Australia some times. So much harder to get parts for the GS500.

I asked on the availability of shims for the valves = 2- 4 weeks

I asked for an oil filter O-ring = 3 weeks

Do they supply any stiffer springs that will fit = I'll get back to you shortly........ Nope!

[galahs]

I found this good read with pictures on replacing your fork springs

http://www.sportbikes.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/940631/an/0/page/0

shame we couldn't add it to Alpha's awsome FAQ