Stolen Biker's Revenge...

[pandy]

I want to commend everyone who's posted on this subject. I think this is the most respectful exchange I've seen here, and the opinions vary to huge degrees on a hot topic like guns. 

Thank you!!! 

[Jake D]

Did you guys read about the burglar in San Jose, CA that broke into a house and stole a gun safe?  He opened it and found a memory card with pictures of the homeowner molesting a child.  The thief turned the child molester in and the thief is now facing a life sentence (third strike). 
Amazing. . .

Ex-con turns in child molester suspect
A reader requested reposting this from last week:

"Risking a life term to protect a child
SAN JOSE, Calif. — Matthew Ryan Hahn glared in disbelief at the digital photographs of a man molesting a girl. She was only a year old, maybe 2.
The next thing to do would be obvious — call police. But Hahn had been convicted of burglary more than once. And the memory card on which he discovered the photos came from a stolen safe."

[pandy]

It was front-page news yesterday. Hahn is a serial robber, and he turned the memory card in anonymously. When he was arrested (on other crimes, I believe), he offered that he was the child's saviour in the hopes that he won't have to spend the rest of his life in prison for repeatedly robbing homes.

Kudos to him for doing the right thing in getting a fiend off the streets. But...when is he going to stop robbing people?

[Mandres]

I have several guns.  They're necessary tools here in the east Texas countryside.  I don't think I would use them against a robber unless he was armed also. 

-M

[Jake D]

It was front-page news yesterday. Hahn is a serial robber, and he turned the memory card in anonymously. When he was arrested (on other crimes, I believe), he offered that he was the child's saviour in the hopes that he won't have to spend the rest of his life in prison for repeatedly robbing homes.

Kudos to him for doing the right thing in getting a fiend off the streets. But...when is he going to stop robbing people?

From the sounds of it, he is pretty much done robbing people right about . . .now!    But I commend him.  Of note, he has been really troubled by the photos he saw on that memory stick.  He is getting counseling in jail and is actually reading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" in jail (no kidding), which I thought was pretty cool.

[3imo]

Nobody in there right mind would turn a gun on an unarmed robber....That is a crime.

BUT..at 3am you wake up and hear noises downstairs and proceed to investigate with you 45cal. smith&wesson revolver.  The intruder comes at you and you fire and kill him.

Nothing wrong with that.

Regardless of what the criminal was doing, he was wrong. A decent person would not KILL an unarmed intruder if he felt he had the situation under control.
But anyone killed while commiting a crime("while commiting" does not include "after subdued") is at fault for his own death, regardless of the facts after the initial break-in.
 Burglars should be scared to enter someones home. They shouldn't be allowed to sue, on the grounds that they were committing a crime at the time.  

An intruder intto my home will be killed. No if ands or buts. If necessary I have a spare .22cal revolver that is untraceable, that I can place in their cold dead hands, to placate the police.

[Jeff P]

If necessary I have a spare .22cal revolver that is untraceable...

uh, not anymore 

[3imo]

I don't really have a spare .22cal revolver that is untraceable, that I can place in their cold dead hands, to placate the police.

Thats just a figure of speech.... ...yeah  thats it.

[Alphamazing]

In Texas it is legal to kill someone if they unlawfully enter your home.

[3imo]

hhhmmm...go figure....I was born in Central Texas.   

[SuZuki10]

What about in New Jersey?  Where can I find that out?  My boyfriend is going to going to the police academy at the end of July, which means we will most likely have a gun in our house in the near future.  That is why I am asking.

[LimaXray]

I could tell you but I'll need to see some PBA cards first 

[trumpetguy]

A household firearm accident is always 100% avoidable. Just cause some jackass let there kid get hurt, don't mean you should remove my right to responsible protect myself.

The incident I was referring to was a suicide, not an accident.  Guns are very useful for that.

And I don't think for one second that "only good people" are allowed to get concealed carry permits in ANY state.  Everyone has a temper (or moments of depression) and everyone has occasional lapses of judgment.  Those lapses of judgment with a gun available are a little more lethal.

[Jake D]

True.  And intent can form "in the twinkling of an eye."

[3imo]

some kid grabs a gun and shoots himself                              -- solution: outlaw guns

some kid drive a crotch rocket into a van and kill 4 others       -- solution: outlaw motorcycles

some guy gets drunk and drives a car through a group of kids -- solution: outlaw alcohol and cars

Some guy who legally owns a pistols, kills his wife                  -- solution: outlaw marriage

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the Idea of infringing on everyones freedom on account of an individuals lapse of judgement is Stupid. IMO o'course.

Yes, these things happen and its f%&ked up, but outlawing guns won't keep a suicidal person from killing themselves, nor will it stop a homicidal husband bent on killing his wife.

Taking Guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens is wrong.  We should not be punished for the crimes of others.  I have the right to defend myself and my family. 

anyone trying to take that right from me will have to meet me and my AR-15 at the front porch. and, OH yeah, bring back up.

[pandy]

I don't really have a spare .22cal revolver that is untraceable, that I can place in their cold dead hands, to placate the police. Thats just a figure of speech.... ...yeah  thats it.

And if they tried to get away, you wouldn't drag them back into the house to make sure that you're in the clear!     Actually, this is unofficial advice I've heard from cop(s) over the years; whether it's true or not, I have no idea.

It would be interesting to see how the statistics compare between Texas and a state that has very different gun laws.

some kid grabs a gun and shoots himself                              -- solution: outlaw guns
some kid drive a crotch rocket into a van and kill 4 others       -- solution: outlaw motorcycles
some guy gets drunk and drives a car through a group of kids -- solution: outlaw alcohol and cars
Some guy who legally owns a pistols, kills his wife                  -- solution: outlaw marriage

Hey...can we get solution: outlaw children    in there somehow? 

[trumpetguy]

I'm not a "gun-blamer."  And I certainly believe in the second amendment.  I'm just saying that the old west notion of "protecting your wife and family" with a gun is pure BS.  The gun is statistically more likely to harm someone in the home than be used to stop an intruder.  That's a risk I'm not taking.

some kid grabs a gun and shoots himself                              -- solution: outlaw guns

AND

Taking Guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens is wrong.  We should not be punished for the crimes of others.  I have the right to defend myself and my family.

I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or not, but no one here has suggested that guns should me made unavailable because of a suicide somewhere.

I'm simply saying that if you think the world is safer because you have a gun, I'm not buying it.  That gun is still more likely to cause harm to someone in YOUR household than to a criminal.  I'm not making that up.

[pandy]

I'm simply saying that if you think the world is safer because you have a gun, I'm not buying it.  That gun is still more likely to cause harm to someone in YOUR household than to a criminal.  I'm not making that up.

However, is someone in one's own household more likely to be harmed due to the fact that the gun is simply there, or would it be due to the fact that the gun hasn't been stored properly? Would love to see stats on this breakdown!

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

A friend of mine had his son blow his head off while my friend was downstairs watching TV.  How sfe did he feel then? 

And how did the child get to the weapon if it was properly stored?

shhhhh.... we dont' wanna take responsiblity... just blame the people who make the gun... it makes it better that way.

AMEN to that... trumpetguy, I feel for your friend. However, I'm of the opinion that if kids are properly trained, there's no risk with a gun. A. Store it somewhere they can't get it. B. TRAIN them in how to use them safely, and that guns are NOT toys, no matter how much fun they are.

I agree with you, accidents happen, and are tragic.. it's not the guns' fault.. it's the owners who don't respect the power they hold in their hands. Teach a kid not to play with it, they won't. I was taught from a fairly early age. I love guns. Not from a lack of (nor an excess of) testosterone. Just because I like to make things go "boom" and see the can jump when I'm shooting from 100 yards... Some of us see shooting as recreation.

And in response to your post egaeus, I never said that a gun would be needed in this case. Obviously, the guy did OK with just his arms. I'm a smaller guy, and even with my wrestling experience, I'd want an advantage. A large wrench or maglite would work fine. I don't condone lethal force, except when necessary. But you better believe that when I have a home/wife/kids/whole 9 yards, and someone breaks in, I'm shooting to put that fucker down. You don't mess with my family's safety. Sure, some people say "shoot him in the kneecap!"... bullshit. Sure, it's possible. And at a range, it's a fairly easy shot. I can get 1" groups at 15 yards.. that's much smaller than a kneecap. However, in real life, with adrenaline surging through your veins, your heart pumping fast, increased respiration... that's a damn near impossible shot. Know what's easy? Two shots, center mass. A torso is a nice big target. Even when it's moving and you're hopped up on adrenaline.. you can hit it.

I have nothing against people who don't like guns, I feel sorry that they feel that way. But to each his own. Just don't EVER try to take away my right to own guns. EVER. Let me emphasise that. NEVER.   

[3imo]

Everyside of the fence quotes statistics from somewhere or another.   Anyone can bend the #'s to prove their point.
The NRA says the # of actual deaths pales in comparison to deaths prevented by private gun ownership .  who knows?



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My owning a weapon doesn't make the world safer, It provides me the means to keep my family safe.

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Hows this.
IN 1991 a man rushed a pick up truck into a Lubby's restaurant in Killeen TX.  (1 mile from where I lived across the from the mall)
 20+ people were killed as he walked around and popped them off one by one.
At the time a woman who was a licensced gun carrier, was inside Lubby's with her mom and dad. She had left her weapon in her vehicle because it is illegal to carry a weapon into a public restaurant.
Apparently no one told the gunman who killed her parents, that his weapon was not allowed in a restaurant.....OOPS!  

Some Laws make sense on paper...But even Gun haters have to realize you can't disarm citizens.