Looking at a bandit 1200S

[pantablo]

the bandit is not water cooled...so how do you differentiate between oil cooled and air cooled? seems to be they'd be the same thing.

[makenzie71]

the Bandit 1200 has an oil cooler (air/oil cooled).  Emphasis was put on mainaning internal temperatures by cooling the liquid externally.  Hence "liquid cooled".  This variety predated water cooling (air/water) which is why there's a difference between "liquid cooled" and "water cooled".

There aren't many "air cooled" (air/air) motors...with the bulk of them being diesels and 2-strokes.  Air cooled means that the engines termeratures are COMPLETELY dependant on air.  They usually only have oil in them to keep the crank wet.  No remote oiling.  Best example I can think of right now is weedeaters.

Occasionally you'll see something that says a bike is liquid/water cooled

[pantablo]

I only asked because the bandit motor is based on the gsxr motor, which WAS air cooled in the first few years, then went to oil cooled. thanks for the explanation.

[makenzie71]

Yeah briefly the GSXR was...the engines were updated GS blocks and the most cost effective blocks weren't externally cooled other than the heatsinks cast into the jugs and head.  With the higher compression ratios and rpm, though, too many suffered from heat damage before they were a couple years old.

No...wait...the GSXR was always liquid cooled (oil cooler).  I'm thinking something else...maybe Katanas.  Unless the very first 1100's were air cooled...I really don't know much about them.

Got it...the GS and GSX 750 were the predescessors to the GSXR 750...and the air cooled block was decided their weakest link.  When Suzuki started up their flagship supersport (GSXR 750) in 1986 they added the oil cooler and it stayed until they went to water cooling.  I think when the switch was made they had a dual purpose radiator assembly that cooled both water and oil (like with the TL1000R).  The 1986 GSXR1100G also was liquid cooled.  In 1991 the engines were redesigned with more emphasis on air-cooling the block it's self, but retained it's oil cooler.  I think a fan was added.  1993 saw the first water cooled GSXR1100...but still had the oil cooler...this was the retained configuration until 1998.

I couldn't really find a big history database for the 750 but I think it went the same route as the 1100.

[pantablo]

yes, the very first 1100's were air cooled. there's a whole separate forum on gixxer.com for each generation, starting with the air cooled ones.

[makenzie71]

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~gary/1986g.htm

Maybe we got a different block here...but it's been my understanding that the SACS system is "liquid cooling"...and it's the same system on the Bandit 1200.

[DwightAustin]

I know that bike. the owner (previous owner?) in the photo is on www.maximum-suzuki.com. a regular there. That bike has all the right stuff on it. Holeshot is the shaZam! for the bandits. Dale's a nice guy and hosts the "banditfest" they have here every year. All the guys I ride with regularly I met from M-S and they all have 2 bikes, one of which is a Bandit 1200. its the big-big-big brother of the gs. Very good street bike and they can haul ass on the street or track. Only the best riders can find the limits of that bike on the track-that being ground clearance. Easily rectified by grinding off the bits that touch down, using the ground to grind...as my friends do.

this is me on my 600rr and a buddy on his 1st gen bandit 1200 mixing it up.
http://media.putfile.com/streets-32406-pablo-and-greg

$4500 seemed high at first since you can sometimes find NEW old stock in dealers for that much, but he's got all the go-fast bits already on it so I think its a good deal and a good bike. Seriously, a slip on and rejet gets you 10-12HP straight away so that bike has it all going on.

Thanks for all the help guys.  We had some delays with the holiday weekend and catching up, but I'm getting to see it soon.  Pantablo, if you remember the handle of the original owner, PM me.  I couldn't hurt to try to get in touch with him.  The guy selling now is a relative newbie and this was too much bike for him. Thx

[pantablo]

I hope this clears things up a little.
The original GSXR, and its' children, are air and oil cooled. Both, period. The cylinder head is primarily oil cooled, and the cylinders are primarily air cooled. Simple and elegant. There are two oil pumps. One high pressure, low volume pump for the traditional bearing lubrication duties. The other a low pressure, high volume pump that feeds LOTS of oil to the tops of the combustion chambers, and is carefully channeled{pretty much} back to the crankcase, to help cut down on horsepower loss due to the oil hitting spinning parts. Supposedly Suzuki chose this method because they could make a lighter engine than the then current casting technology, would allow a w/c engine to be. They figured the amount of horsepower that was going to be made could be cooled sufficiently with the A/O setup.

from the bandit tech section. I posted the question there.

Will check on previous owner. Its narrowed down to a couple possibilities. Also posted on M-S about this and people remember him. only a matter of time till the right name pops up.

[pantablo]

The Bandit/early Gixxer motors were designed specifically with high-volume oil cooling flow to the heads and underneath piston jets in conjunction with a large oil cooler, to improve the cooling of the motor without resorting to the usual water-cooled design, which would have required heavy cylinder block, head, radiators, hoses, pumps, overflow bottles, gauges, fans, thermostats, etc, etc, etc.

Note: The inclusion of an oil cooler is not a distinction between an air-cooled and an "oil cooled" design - as there are air-cooled motors that have not been designed to have the oil play as much a role in heat dissipation/control - that ALSO have oil coolers. They usually are much smaller coolers, and these air-cooled motors have large cooling fins on the heads and cylinders, to help the heat dissipation.

Look at the very early GS and KZ and CB air-cooled motors to see the difference in the size of the cooling fins on the heads and cylinder blocks!~

EDIT: With the latest finite modeling techniques, this design has been superceded by lightweight water-cooled designs, with very thin casings and jacket designs, which allow the advantages of dedicated water-cooling design while keeping mass under control.

from the bandit tech section again.

BTW-there were a number of 2002 models that were "oil burners". there's a whole forum dedicated to that issue on M-S forum. Not all 2002's though. You can check the the VIN to be sure (again, at M-S they have a database of the affected VINs). At worst, its about a quart of oil per 500 miles I think, on the "oil burners".

[pantablo]

I was wondering what y'all knew about the big bandits.  This is a little bigger than I was looking for, but seems like a decent deal.  If you have any tips on what to look for - what are typical problems for that model? The ad is below.

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/176673308.html

Dwight, I found the member. He's Harleybandit on maximum-suzuki.com. I've PM'd him about talking to you regarding his old bike. He should be an impartial source of info since he's already sold the bike long ago. I'll keep you posted.

[CirclesCenter]

My head just exploded

[Jake D]

Crusading can do that to you. 

[pantablo]

I was wondering what y'all knew about the big bandits. This is a little bigger than I was looking for, but seems like a decent deal. If you have any tips on what to look for - what are typical problems for that model? The ad is below.

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/176673308.html

Dwight, I found the member. He's Harleybandit on maximum-suzuki.com. I've PM'd him about talking to you regarding his old bike. He should be an impartial source of info since he's already sold the bike long ago. I'll keep you posted.

well I was wrong.  Harleybandit is the current member, current seller as well. he's a good guy though, from what I remember him posting on max-zuk. call him and get together to look over the bike. should be in good condition. Still, check the VIN to see if its one of the 2002 oil burners.