Just joined and need some advice (fork seals)

[BadBatzMaru]

Hi everyone... I (finally) joined the forum but have been checking out this site for a while. Its really a great site and resource for GS owners and buyers... so thanks guys...    and so the reason I am posting is:

I need new fork seals pretty bad... fork oil is spilling out over my front end and getting all up in the brake... not good.  So my question is, has anybody done this themselves and how easy/hard is it for a relative newcomer to motorcycles??? The guy at the shop estimated about 200 bucks for the job, but i figured I might save a bunch of cash doing it myself. I havent done any work on any motorcyle before, but I am not too bad with my hands so I think I'm probably capable... but I'd also like to avoid a major catastrophe since its finally sunny around here and I'd like to avoid keeping my bike out of the garage as much as possible... oh, and the front suspension is really way too squishy for me (5'8" 170lbs) so I was thinking of doing the progressive spring and 15W fork oil upgrade too... so I could do all of this at once.

oh and also..... you can save your comments about the fenderectomy.. I may be a newbie but I've done my homework  

thank you!

[DGDM]

Should be fairly easy to do.  The instructions in the clymer manual spell it out fairly clearly.  You have to take off the front tire, remove the front fender, remove the forks from the clamps, and then take the forks apart, replace with new seals.  Hardest part is trying to get the small bolt out of the bottom of the fork if you have access to an impact gun and a long allen wrench it is no problem.  If you have your new seals purchased and fork oil ready it can be done in a couple of hours easily.  While your at it I would suggest progressive springs I feel the difference big time now that I have mine.  Another tip is that a paint roller tube works well as a seal driver.  Also don't take the top bolt off of the fork (which comes out easily with a 1/2 inch ratchet) until after the allen bolt at the bottom of the fork has been removed.  You will need the pressure from the spring to prevent the bolt from free wheeling as you try and remove it.  another tip is do loosen the top bolt before taking fork out of the clamps since thte clamps will give you a good grip.  

Good luck, definately do it yourself and save $170.00.

dave

[70 Cam Guy]

This is my first bike and I did the fork seals before I had 500 miles under my belt.  I bought some 7 wt fork oil and asked a friend to help.  I hadn't even bought the Clymer yet.  It wasn't bad for me but I think it may be tough if you don't have access to air tools or more specifically, an impact gun for the allen in the bottom of the fork.  I have plenty of experience working on cars so taking things apart isn't really imtimidating for me.  I still do suggest getting a Clymer manual first though.  It will save some headache

Just a little tid bit to look forward to is my bike was suddenly smoother and didn't vibrate nearly as much.  It also didn't dive on braking nearly as much.  I kept the stock springs but I bet the Progressives would be very cool.  I weigh in at about 160

Get some new front brake pads while you're at it (since they are getting fouled by fork oil)
Also don't let your front brake lever dangle upside down at all, you'll have to bleed your front brake... Ask me how I know...  

Good Luck!

edit - I put my bike up on the center stand and put a jacket stand under the H pipe on the header to keep the front end up.  Its probably not the correct way to keep the front end up but it held it for a couple weeks without any trouble

[BadBatzMaru]

Thanks for the replies... I am going to order the parts today (I hope) and take a crack at it... While I have the forks apart, what else should I replace? I'd like to order everything at once so I can have all parts on hand once i start the job.. so I'm thinking to order all the little bits like new washers, ring snaps, o-rings etc.... I'd like to just rebuild to forks to great condition, and not need worry about going back in anytime soon.. so please give me your recommendations on what to replace while I've got everything apart.. I will definitely be putting the progressive springs in as well... also, on that note, what weight oil do you guys recommend putting in? should I get 15W as opposed to the factory's 10? that would help to stiffen it up a bit, right?

Thanks for all of your help.
-b

[pantablo]

definitely progressive springs, 15W oil. Will transform your ride.

[nsoccer3097]

i've been told that if you have oil on the forks or leaking somewhere else, not only do you need to replace the dust seals, but the oil seals as well.  the oil seal is the part that's probably actually going bad letting it get up to the dust seal, etc, etc.  dealer parts are EXTREMELY expensive compared to the aftermarket, which, i think, come as an entire kit (2 dust seals and 2 oil seals) for much cheaper.

[BadBatzMaru]

any idea where I can grab the aftermarket kit? I've been looking online at OEM parts and the oil/dust seals are about 8 or 9 bucks each (at least that's the best I've found so far)... I haven't seen any kits though.. if anyone has suggestions please let me know. Thanks.
-b

[nsoccer3097]

okay, local shop says that for 2 suzuki OEM dust seals and 2 aftermarket oil seals it would be $31.00.  local suzuki dealer says, 12.75 per oil seal and 14.67 per dust seal which totals to $54.84 - for OEM parts.  just out of curiosity, i asked how much for them to replace the seals and if the i brought in the bike it would take about 2 1/2 hours and cost $150 and just the forks would be 30-45 minutes and cost $75.

[BadBatzMaru]

Thanks for the info... As it stands now I think I can get OEM suzuki through mail order for total of $35 so only 4 bucks more than aftermarket.  I wouldnt even bother checking what my local shop would charge me for OEM parts (since I'm in NYC... not really local, if you know what I mean....)  OK, well thanks for the advice. I am going to place the order for parts as soon as I can and hope to get started on the repair as soon as I get 'em

-b

[Kee]

I realized today that I got the same problem. If you don't mind, since you already seemed to research this, I was hoping you could tell me what parts I need to order. I ordered a repair manual but don't want to wait until I got it before I order parts. Also a good website to order from would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Black Snowman]

www.bikebandit.com has all of the parts indecies scanned in on their site. They sell the parts too, but at full retail.

That's where I go to look up what I need though.

[nsoccer3097]

b, are you sure that's for both sides and both parts (oil seals and dust seals)?  does anyone know if the oil seals should be replaced at the same time or is this one the infamous "dealer sales jobs"?

[Black Snowman]

I THINK all you need are 2 each of parts 5 and 7 on http://www.bikebandit.com/PartsBandit/Assets/schematics/Suzuki/s4_0034J07.gif

That's the Oil Seal: 51153-01D00
And the Dust Seal: 51173-01D00

Does someone have their manual handy to confim those are the only "wear" parts?

[Wrencher]

The oil seals are usually the most obvious anyway, there are other wear items however.

Oil seals
Dust seals
Any and all O-rings (replace)
Bronze bushings (two in each shock, one inner and one outer.)

The part numbers for the bushings on Bike Bandit are parts #:
51167-01D00 part 3 in the diagram (listed as Metal Slide)
51121-01D00 part 9 in the diagram (listed as Piston)

These are usually Teflon coated bronze and should be inspected each time the fork comes apart. If it has been riden for any length of time with the seal leaking or is low on oil for any reason these will probably need replacement. A quick visual inspection will tell you if they are good or not. They look black when properly coated and the bronze shows through as they wear.

Both sides should be done at the same time or if not rebuilt the oil level should be checked to make sure its the same. This is absolutely critical! If the sides are not equal the front wheel gets twisted sideways every time the shocks compress. Lousy handling and its really tough on wheel bearings and axles.

Washers usually don't get a great deal of wear and tear in forks, but they do get bent easily if the fork bottomed or topped out hard (read---Wheelies, Hard Braking, Curbs, Very Big Potholes) in which case they obviously need replacement.

[BadBatzMaru]

I haven't taken my forks apart yet so I can't be certain exactly what I need. After talking to a few folks previously, I was sort of under the impression that the dust seals and oil seals would probably take care of it... but I am the fourth owner of this bike (have had it a few months now...) so I can't be completely certain of its history... so I was thinking of ordering the other goodies as well just to make certain the job is done right... (I dont want to open the forks up and then find out I have to wait another couple weeks for parts to come...)  Also, I am certain about the pricing being for one seal.  From what I've seen they are usually listed as single parts. Actually, I found the aftermarket oil seals were $12 a pair from cycledepot, but they didn't have the aftermarket dust seal (does one even exist??) and so that would still have to come OEM ($16 pair if I remember correctly...)  and I used that same bikebandit site to see what parts I needed, but they seem to be kinda overpriced on their website....

[Kee]

Stupid question:
Does each fork need 2 dust and oil seals, for a total of 4 of each for both forks? Bike bandit says you need two but I wasn't sure if that was just for one fork.
Also, I was going to change the oil to 15W. How many quarts does one fork take?

Still haven't found a good site that has everything - especially the dust seals. If anybody could recommend a good one....

[The Buddha]

1 dust cover and 1 seal per leg. 2 for the bike. You need about 300ml fork oil and I use synthetic bel ray or some like that. Those bushings etc are likely to be bad only if you ran the bike dry or fork oil and believe me that is next to impossible. The fork oil simply coats everything and never comes off even when you wash the thing...You'll see..
Cool.
Srinath.

[scratch]

377ml each leg. I bought two 500ml bottles of the Bel-Ray, and used some of the left over to 'flush' the old oil. I ordered my seals from either from BikeBandit.com or Dennis Kirk, I can't remember.

I used a 15-18"(roughly) block of wood under one of the upside-down bolt heads securing the case halves between the exhaust header pipes to block up the front wheel.

[The Buddha]

Why flush out the old oil. Oh you just replaced the oil, not do the whole seal thing...When you do seals the internals should be taken out and cleaned.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Kee]

Thanks for all the help. I ordered the parts I need and will just pick up the oil at a motorcycle shop.
Now for the most important question: Do I have to stop riding, or just be more careful? I figure it will be a week and a half before I get the parts.