I went to college to...

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

a college degree is what a high school diploma used to be

Whoa. What? You're telling me you used to get out of high school ready to go into the NRE field? Wow.. the times, they have a changed since you graduated high school in the 30s, eh?  

[Turd Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't agree with any of that, Pandy.  Maybe you should be more specific about what field you are talking about.  Personally, I think that 85% of the majors offered here at my school give people amazing skills.  To match those skills with just a high school diploma would take 10+ years in the field.  I've learned mountains of things getting my degree and I didn't learn shaZam! about engineering in high school.

-Turd.

[vtlion]

a college degree is what a high school diploma used to be

Whoa. What? You're telling me you used to get out of high school ready to go into the NRE field? Wow.. the times, they have a changed since you graduated high school in the 30s, eh?  

I agree that some departments at certain schools really instill great skills on their students, but as a gross generalization, many students seem to show up looking to do as little as possible to get the degree.  I realize that this is nothing new, but the older I get, the less patience I have for it.  It seems that the sciences and engineering are somewhat more immune to this attitude, but not completely. 

College is a business.  Many students pay tuition and expect a degree in return rather than an education.  I have witnessed professors passing a student who clearly deserves a failing grade simply because the student threatened to take their case to a higher athority where they know they will get the 'dissatisfied customer' treatment instead of the 'stupid slackass who is reaping what they sow' treatment.

From what I have seen and heard, pre-meds are the absolute worst.  Many of them only care about the grade.  They are so focused on the numbers for their med school applications that they miss out on alot of great learning.

[oramac]

'cause having a job as a household furniture mover SUCKED!!  I missed playing music, so I majored in it.     I've been teaching it eight years now.

[coll0412]

I went to college to become a mechanical engineer, only because simply working on things was never enough to satisfy me. I wanted to how it worked, why it worked and how I can make it better. I have paid my tuition myself along with rent ect,ect, by working two jobs in the summer and one in the school year, thank god I got a good paying internship otherwise I would not be on this forum(either no bike ,or no free time).

Now that I am almost graduated I see how annoying the freshmen are, but I was just as stupid, and there are pictures to prove it. Plus the roving bands of drunk freshmen are good eye candy.

In terms of  college being the next high school, I disagree, unlike high school, college is what you make of it. Sure you can graduate with a degree, but there are so many more aspects of college that make it a far better learning experience(I think that is what you go to do right?)

[pandy]

Looks as though I need to clarify. I wasn't comparing the education one receives in high school as being comparable to the education one receives in college. Far from it. But.... many years ago.....20's? 30's? Yeah...back when I graduated....having a high school diploma was enough. I don't believe it is anymore, in many cases.

Many companies today look for a college degree where that wasn't the case 50 years ago. That was the intent of my statement, but I obviously didn't express myself very well. Almost all of the positions I've had in my lifetime, the first thing that's sought on my resume is what sort of degree I have...not whether or not I have a college degree. Skills, schmills...these companies don't care. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. It's simply a reality at many companies.

I absolutely believe that getting a college degree is important, and that a high school degree generally isn't enough, DEPENDING ON THE FIELD ONE CHOOSES. Have I qualified my every word enough yet?  Personally, I think everyone should have access to free/extremely low-cost higher education, whether it's for career reasons or for personal enrichment. I think the experience one gains in college is invaluable, both in personal relationships and in knowledge. That's why I busted my butt getting my degree.

It's rather a rite of passage that one goes from a naive, wide-eyed freshman to a more-worldly (hopefully) individual who's ready to enter adult life ( I know this statement is pretty funny in some cases).

One statistic I read while I was still in college was that only 25% of the U.S. population had a college degree, and I remember being absolutely shocked that it was such a low number.

Do I think high school = college in experience and education? Duh. Of course not. Do I believe that it is as important today to have a college degree as it was to have a high school diploma 50 years ago, absolutely. Do I think it depends on what field one is entering? Certainly. Some professions require trade school, some require college degrees, some require life experience, and some require advanced degrees. I believe that higher education expands our choices. Others believe that anything beyond high school is ridiculous if you don't have an idea of what you want to be "when you grow up."

I think college is an excellent place to go to grow up, and it's my hope that I see everyone afforded this opportunity during my lifetime (without having to go into lifetime debt doing so).

[Turd Ferguson]

Gotcha Pandy...I thought you were saying that a college degree doesn't really do much for anyone.  You were actually saying that many people consider it a MUST when looking to employ someone.

I agree 100%

-Turd.

[coll0412]

Ohh my bad, I read that wrong too.

I agree, its a world market now, a high school diploma means nothing

[pandy]

I guess I need to go back and get a *graduate* degree in communication...   

Today was such a crappy day that I'm not surprised that I made even less sense than usual.... 

[jake42]

I've been doing this college thing for over 15 years now. I have various degrees and am working toward a PhD now, and I've been teaching college freshmen for the better part of 10 years now. Now my experience is a bit different than some because I teach in a school of nursing so most of my 200 plus students each semester came to school with a plan in mind, unlike the undecided's or general college of arts and sciences people.  Have they changed? Yes. For one, the caliber of student I get now compared to even 5 years ago is different. Most of my students now are in the top 5% of their classes and are very serious about their educations. Granted I also see more of a sense of entitlement among some of them as well in the sense that they have never gotten below an A in their entire lives and expect the same here (but this is not the majority).

One thing I have noticed in the past few years is that student's are much more aware of the costs associated with college and the debt's that they are incurring. VT you can probably attest to this (being a lifer like me), but when I came to college in 1990 as a freshman, I didn't really have a concept of what it meant to sign all those promissory notes. Let's just say at this point I owe more for my education than I do for my house.

As to why I came to college. I knew I wanted to get out of my hometown. There was nothing there aside from working in one of the two grocery stores. I had this ideal in my head that I would go to school and increase my own knowledge and I wanted  to add to the overall knowledge in the world in some way. It's been an amazing trip and it still continues. I always knew that I wanted to teach and my job now is the best thing ever. I get to teach, and am constantly reading and learning. Plus I get to dissect cadavers on a regular basis, which is really cool.

So to sum it all up. Freshmen are somewhat different now. Many of them are better prepared for college than many of us probably were.  It's still hard. It's still alot of work. You might be able to get through some lower level undergrad classes by showing up to tests or doing half-assed work, but the upper level classes will still weed out those who are just here to have a good time from those who want something more. 

Jake

[Turd Ferguson]

Awesome post Jake.

-Turd.

[natedawg120]

yeah, I started my college career in the college of business at Radford.  After my freshman year I decided to give it one more semester because i didn't like the general load of that college, as in to easy and boring, and the other students were at college cause either they had to go, parents paying, or came for the parties, still parents paying.  I finished all my course work in class and never had anything to do afterwards so of course me and my roommate drank and had a good time.  Then i switched to computer science and man did that crap stop at the drop of a hat, but i was happier and actually felt challenged. 

[WREX]

yeah, well said jake42

[LeChatNoir]

I went to college because my parents just always expected that I would go to college after high school. I was fortunate to have a great public high school in town...I can truthfully say that my first two years of college (University of California) were easier than my last two years of high school. Got a BS Computer Science, made mucho $ in the dot-com boom in San Francisco, then had to leave for the obscure hinterlands of Southern California.

[NateDawg]
>basically i came to college cause i didn't want to work construction or in a mill of some sort for the rest of my life.  Didn't help that my parents didn't support me at all but then >again that is why i moved out when i was 16  .  Computer Science is what I graduated with and I am still stuck in tech support land, all be it a good paying job though.  The job >after this one i am either going to shoot for IT management or a programmer, we shall see...

I once was a programmer, but the intense all-nighters leading up to deadlines really suck. Now I'm in tech support for a software comapany, and loving it. I'd recommend trying as many jobs as you can, finding the one you like, and settling in for the long haul.

[Pandy]
>I wasn't comparing the education one receives in high school as being comparable to the education one receives in college. Far from it.

Generally, I agree, though I have worked as a subordinate to someone without a college degree--someone who completely outclassed me as a programmer.

[Egaeus]

Generally, I agree, though I have worked as a subordinate to someone without a college degree--someone who completely outclassed me as a programmer.

I have a friend like that, but he didn't learn to program in high school.  He learned on his own.  High School doesn't teach you much of anything.

[sledge]

I strongly dissagree with any suggestion that University is a waste of time. Ok its true to say that these days a degree is seen more as a measure of intelligence rather than knowledge in a particular field. Example, If you wanna get on as a management trainee at McD`s you need a degree, dont matter what in .......just have one! Ok there are plenty of jobs for unskilled, skilled and trade/vocationaly qualified individuals but certain jobs are just not open to you unless you are a graduate. Furthermore there are jobs that unless you have studied at Uni you wouldnt have a clue about, like medicine, research and engineering design. Companies depend on graduates who have specialist knowledge in a particular field that can often only be gained at Uni.  I did 2 yrs at Uni then got a job with a well known multi-discipline and multi-national engineering co` and after 6 months they sent me back there for a year. University is definately NOT a waste of time, major organisations must have educated people on board to progress and make a profit and survive and ultimately the financial rewards are there for the individual who can fill the requirements. I certainly wouldnt have the lifestyle I do now if I hadnt taken the university route 20 yrs ago and it is actually my ambition to give up my present career and become a lecturer within the next 10 yrs. I would advise anyone fortunate enough to be in the position to be able study at Uni .......TO TAKE IT!!! without hesitation

[vtlion]

I strongly dissagree with any suggestion that University is a waste of time.

I don't think anyone is arguing that college itself is a waste of time.  The sentiment is more that it is a wasted opportunity for many who are accepted and would do the minimum or Buddha Loves You and moan to administration rather than work harder to pass the course.

For some careers, college is not required.  In this sense, yes, it is poorly used time to spend 4 years on a GenEd degree if you want to be a plumber or some other skilled vocation that you won't learn in this type of school.  I doubt many of us could afford to sacrifice 4 years of income (let alone tuition money)  just to spend that time in college. 

Still, I agree that the experiences are always valuable IF they are used as a chance to grow. 

[sledge]

My comments were in reply to Kasumis posting in which he claims the University system is ridiculous. Thats a fair comment and one to which he is entitled to. Things were a lot different 20yrs ago when I went and now the individual pays, that wasnt the case for me......I even got a grant to go. The fact you will be in debt after graduation shouldnt put someone off. I have been in debt since I left for Gods- sake, mortgages, family, endless bills etc.

[Onlypastrana199]

If i had to pay for all four years of college...it would cost me $220,000 not including books...tell me that isnt rediculous...

[pandy]

My comments were in reply to Kasumis posting in which he claims the University system is ridiculous. Thats a fair comment and one to which he is entitled to. Things were a lot different 20yrs ago when I went and now the individual pays, that wasnt the case for me......I even got a grant to go. The fact you will be in debt after graduation shouldnt put someone off. I have been in debt since I left for Gods- sake, mortgages, family, endless bills etc.

When I was Kasumi's age, college would have been completely wasted on me. So much was going on in my young life that education just seemed beside the point...it seemed pointless. Fortunately, life straightened itself out a bit eventually, and I did complete my education (for now...who knows what degree(s) I'll go for in the future).

My own son took some time off from college, but his employer is now paying for his education, so he's back at it (and I'm a happy mama!!!!!!!). Sometimes these things reallyl work out.

There are SO many good reasons to go to college, and personal enrichment (if one can afford to get personally enriched without going personally broke  ) is just as valid as any other reason, IMHO. I hope my GS son changes his mind eventually.

And I completely agree with sledge where he suggests that it's not a bad thing to go into debt getting one's education. Ask any financial planner, and I think the answer one will generally get is that education debt is GOOD debt (my student loan interest is 4%, and it'll be 3% soon). I consolidated, and the payments are low. Making payments consistently is excellent for one's credit history, and one will rarely find money offered at such a low interest rate. Now, having said that, it's also best to borrow as little as possible. Work as much as you can without affecting your schooling, and borrow as little as possible. It can be done!