nitrous?

[cowboydave]

is it an option that wont destroy our bikes when used more than once. even a small shot. i know that even with nitrous our bikes arnt going to be megga fast but it would be fun to play around with. anyway tell me what you know if you want

[CirclesCenter]

I'm prodding this idea a bit myself.

First thing.

Engine rebuild, stuff it with ALL FORGED INTERNALS AND FORGED SLEEVES. Bore and stroke as far as it will go without causing ridiculous rod angles. (That's a crank killer... I haven't done the math on this so I don't know if it would even be an issue.) Top off with a modified GSXR750 head and aircraft grade headbolts.

Now that the engine won't break we address any other issues.

Transmission? I don't know how much power this little monster can handle, I have no clue here.

Chain/sprokets (They're all pretty damned strong right? Just replace it, maybe put a metal guard over it)

Sticky tires. Swap for bandit rear wheel a set of racing meats on it. While you're at it might as well drop a RGV250 rear, or some aftermarket shock back there to try and plant this power.

Now it would easily hold a 50 shot. I'd do a 75 if I had a spare motor.

And yes this is where i'm going with this bike...

A 75 shot would net you (Of course with exhaust, intake and all aforementioned work) around 110ish RWHP. (Guys with a rejet, k&n and a V&H are getting mid to upper 40s at the rear.)

In short you'd be about even with a Bandit 12. (His torque curve would probably make up for the weight difference)

You know I looked at that again and I'd have to say 120 to 130 rwhp by virtue of the hot cam you'd have to stuff in that head, and the head itself. You might beat the bandit 1200. If you can stay on your bike that is...

(This thing would be INSANE to ride....)

You know I just realized that I'm full of crap, at 130rwhp you would be outdoing a CBR900RR Fireblade. You'd phacking destroy everything short of a Liter bike/Busa

Of course this is a very outlandish scheme. But I have plenty of time, and don't mind breaking some shaZam!.


Do a 25 shot on a stock motor and expect to have to replace it after a while. (Or save yourself the trouble and buy a B1200)

[FearedGS500]

ok .. wait ... a small shot on this bike would probly be ok .. but most of these sneaky peeks ( what you would have to use in a safe manner if you as my self ) there set up for Fuel injected cars and what not ..... you plan on drilling in to the carbs and making a permnet mount ? NoS is an idea .. but is it worth all the work and the tuning its going to take ? this is not like the movie you cant go 110 and press the red botton and be off like a rocket . nitros is made as a low rpm booster . it can be done ..theres GSXR1000 out there that have them i'v seen them ...but there FI (fuel injected) bikes ................

[cowboydave]

http://www.poweredbynitrous.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=492
theres a site that has a nitros kit built for a dual carb that would boost alittle horses in our bike for about 500bucks, worth trying if you have the money and time. oh and a nother motor.

[average]

CBD....where in the hell would you mount that bottle? 

[CirclesCenter]

Where would it go?

On the side opposite the exhaust. Yeah carrying compressed gas on a bike is not really a good idea. (But we don't really care about that though )

Low RPM?

Where nitrous makes its power is entirely dependent upon tuning for it. Nitrous is just N₂O. The N₂ (Two Nitrogens) is for cooling and is inert during combustion. O (Oxygen) is for combustion. (Air has about 20% ish Oxygen in it) by adding this oxygen we are able to increase the ammount of fuel we can burn completely.

C8H18     +     O2      -->  CO2 + H2O   (and a big smile if all goes well)
  Gas           Oxygen           Exhaust

And of course we can't be too rich or lean so thers always the famous   14.7 :  1   (aka stoichiometric) (sp?)

But the ammount of O₂ is limited (by volumetric efficiency) so we have to match it with fuel, no more and no less. (More fuel = rich, less = lean and either one is not so great... Too much of either porks up flame front and such.)

By cramming more O₂ in we can cram more C8H18 in and still get complete combustion.  (And Nitrous being pressurized to 1000 psi or so you can cram A WHOLE BUNCH in, that's why you have nitrous "jets" to meter the flow.)


Now I'm assuming that your low end hypothesis is based on the idea of a fixed flow rate of nitrous vs. an engine's INCREASED flow rate at INCREASED rpms. I'm going to riddle a few holes in that. Hope you don't mind.

For example a brand new R6 operating at its *claimed* redline of 17,500 (it actually spins 16,000 but we're using 17,500 for academic purposes.) Flows about 371 cfm. (Assuming 100% volumetric efficiency, which without the ram air in effect is unlikely, but with the ram air could get above 100% but probably no higher than 115% ish.)

(17,500rpms x 600cc's (yes not exact, but my head hurts so ) = 10500000 / 1000 to convert to liters = 10,500 x 0.0353146667 to convert to cubic feet = ~ 370.80cfm) (Note that the units of time in each one are the same so no conversion needed)

And we all know that the R6 is a real mover.

So 371cfm. Hmm. that's not very much at all, I'm kinda surprised.

Now atomospheric pressure is about 14.7psi at sea level. At 950 psi nitrous has a density of 5.44 lb/gal. So a 2lb bottle (like the one in the link posted before) holds 0.3676xxx Gallons. A gallon is 0.133680556 Cubic feet. To reach atmospheric pressure it would take that bottle (0.3676 x 1000 psi = 367.6 /14.7 = 25.xxx gallons or about 3.342 cubic feet.

Hmm that's not a lot is it?

(No I'm not going to bed untiul i finish this long thing that no one will read. )

The compression ratio for this motor is 12.8 : 1. (Don't squeeze me that hard please!) so 600 / 12.8 = 46.875cc (So damnit I'm going to have to convert back from facking cfm again.... DAMNIT!)

So 14.7 parts or this 46.875cc is oxygen, and oxygen is 20 of air so a whole 73.5 parts (yeesh!) are Air and 1 (just one, WTF?) is C8H18. So going back to 4, 100% full 14.7 : 1 ratio cylinders composing 600cc at 14.7psi we have.

600 / 74.5 = 8.05cc of C8H18    118.39cc of 0₂   and   473.56cc of other gases (inert as far as combustion)  And that's what is needed to make 115 *claimed* horsepower.

So to make a 50 shot... We need 50 / 115 = 0.43478 x 8.05 = 3.5cc more gas and 0.43478 x 118.39 = 51.47cc more 0₂

So that 51.47cc has to come from somewhere. And damnit, it's way up the page.

So our bottle holds 3.342 cubic feet of Nitrous one third of which is O₂ so   3.342 / 3 = 1.114 cubic feet of O₂  1.114 x 28316.8466 (conversion to Cubic Centimeters, or cc) = 31544.9671cc

31544cc / 51.47cc = 612.88 events x 2 for four stroke = 1225.76 events

Wait wait wait....

f%$k. Temperature inside the engine epands all these gasses. f%$k FCUK FACK shaZam!.

Now I know why I hated chemistry so facking much.

God damnit, and it's 12:30 and I can't go and figure that shaZam! out right now.... DAMNIT.

OK I'll finish up this equation sometime later, or if someone else wants to finish it for me here's where I'm at.

The bike in question is an R6.
At 1000 psi inside a 2lb nitrous bottle there is 31544cc of O₂ (converted to atmopheric)
For a perfect combustion event there are 73.5 parts air and one part C8H18.
To make all four cylinders fire for stock hp you need 8.05cc of C8H18 and 118.39cc or O₂

And I just realized I need to redo the volume pumped through the engine. I forgot that in a four stroke you need 2 revolutions to move a cylinder of air.


Such are the mistakes you make at 12:30/1am.


Anyways someone who knows more than me, finish this shaZam! please.

[CirclesCenter]

Ok basically what I'm saying is:

Theres a whole lot of Oxygen in that bottle.

The hot engine EXPANDS that oxygen when it gets in the cylinder (and the oxygen it breathes in too)

Then it squirts in some gas (not very much at all really....) and when it's getting nitrous it has to squirt in more gas.

So nitrous in effect is extra Oxygen in a bottle.

How would extra oxygen ONLY be better at producing low rpm power, and not high rpm power?

[cowboydave]

what about putting the bottle under the frame or inside the rear fender walls above the wheel im not taking into considerataion the bottle size because there are many sizes of them but locataion wouldnt be a big problem. ive seen nitrous run on dirtbikes,in places where the bottle probably wont get damaged.
tuning it is the trick
and thanks for all the info/help