Flatout Motorcycles SUCK!

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

I got a reply, I got a reply!

nicholas,
i tried to be nice at first but she coming off like a ass. i tried to explain that we have to order a lot of stuff from the factory. then i told her that on our web site it states that it takes 7-10 working days before you receive the parts. then she told me to cancel the order, i said ok thats fine but there is a restocking fee. then she starts in that she was going to contact her credit card company and tell them not to pay. well in my eyes ive done what im suppose to do, like all the orders i do daily. im a easy guy to get along with and will bend over backwards to help people out but when you start giving me attitude when im trying to help, im going to get a little angry. im sorry you feel that way but i thought i would let you know my side of the story. you can make up your own mind.

thanks
chris adkins

ps, check around other forums and ask about me. you will see that i am a stand up guy and back up what i say im going to do.

bahahaha

[Chilly Willy]

I just sent the following e-mail:

To: Chris Adkins at Flatout Motorcycles

From:  Noah Barfield

Re:  Your poor handling of an order request by a friend of mine


Chris,

I am writing to express my extreme dismay towards the complete lack of professionalism you displayed towards my friend and fellow forum member, Staci.

As a customer, she has the right to cancel an order that has not yet been filled.  I understand that this cancellation may cause you some inconvenience.  What you do not have, however, is the right to charge a "restocking fee" for an order that has neither yet been filled nor even pulled.

Restocking fees generally are charged when a customer requests a return / refund (not an exchange, nor a cancellation).  Your application of a restocking fee in this case is vindictive, petty, and most likely, illegal.

I would like you to know that the unprofessional manner in which you handled Staci's order has cost your company my business as well as the business of many of the members on our forum.  While you have the right to hang up the phone if a customer is being verbally abusive, you are merely displaying immaturity and poor business conduct to hang up on a customer expressing her dissatisfaction and asking for some reasonable form of recourse. 

Again, please realize that your behavior has cost your company a potentially significant client base.  If you were my employee, you would no longer be on my payroll.

Without regards,


Noah Barfield

(xxx) xxx-xxxx

Chilly

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Woohoo!

Man.. if he gets like 30 of these.... he'll be kicking himself!

[Destro]

I have always had good luck with flatout, much cheaper than locally.  I know that Chris and flatout is well respected on the YZF600R board.  So I would take this incident as a warning and not be too hard on the poor guy. 

[Chilly Willy]

Good point Destro.  It is important to try to see things from others' points of view.  Even though this is Pandy's issue, I felt compelled to write because of the basic unfairness of it all.  It would be one thing if Chris charged her a restock fee if the item was already pulled, packaged, and on its way.  But to charge a restock fee for something that is still on the shelf strikes me as unethical. 

With so many manufacturing jobs being outsourced and with a rising level of quality products across the board, it seems logical that offering superior customer service would be a way for a company to hold onto a client base.  For example, I used to buy Dell computers because they had one of the top customer service records in the industry.  Then they outsourced their customer service.  So now I buy based on the most features for the lowest price (Toshiba, Sony, etc.).

It's important for us as a forum to spread the word when a company treats us well (National Cycle and Bike Bandit, for example) or acts irresponsibly (Flatout).

Chilly

[annguyen1981]

Also, complaining to the SAME guy will do no good.  You must complain to the manager or owner in order to get things changed.  I highly doubt that he will share these emails with his boss/es.

[pandy]

Chris's response on BARF and my response to him:
___________________________________________
Originally posted by chris@flatout
i couldnt have said it better myself. this is what i have to say about this ordeal. i am chris (the person that hung up on you) the reason behind me hanging up on you was your attitude. i was trying to find out when they were going to be here, so i could you a eta on when they would be to you. then you told me to cancel the order which is fine but there is restocking fee (as stated earlier in the thread) we have to pay a restocking fee to suzuki to take the parts back. yes your parts were on there way from suzuki which i tried to tell you that. i would have tried to help you out because i dont like to see a rider down and out from riding. you started in with a attitude and being rude. in my eyes i was doing my job like i do everyday and would have bent over backwards to help you out. the way i was taught "treat people the way you want to be treated" that is all i have to say about that. i know this may not be the may not be the to handle this but i am honest, stand up guy. if i tell you something then i do it.
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And I disagree with your assessment of our exchange (other than the fact that you DID hang up on me), and I disagree with your way of doing business. What you seem to be saying when you say you treat others as you'd have them treat you is that you like to have others hang up on you, and you don't like to have your e-mails answered, because you don't answer others'?

It makes no sense to say that I called with an attitude and was rude. There would be absolutely no reason for me to start out rudely, because I figured you'd be telling me that my order had shipped and you'd be giving me a tracking number. I was absolutely stunned to learn that YOU hadn't even received my parts yet and that you couldn't give me an ETA. You didn't address that part at all here, Chris.

The FTC doesn't say that you can charge customers a restocking fee if you have to pay one; the FTC states that you must make a full refund if the order hasn't shipped.

It sounds as though you need to make some modifications to your website if you want to be in compliance with FTC rules.

[pandy]

I have always had good luck with flatout, much cheaper than locally.  I know that Chris and flatout is well respected on the YZF600R board.  So I would take this incident as a warning and not be too hard on the poor guy. 

I'm glad to hear your experience was better than mine. Folks on SBR have noted that there have been complaints on one of the 600RR sites that are similar to mine.

Also, complaining to the SAME guy will do no good.  You must complain to the manager or owner in order to get things changed.  I highly doubt that he will share these emails with his boss/es. 

Which is why I cc'd my e-mail to another person at Flatout. They answered more of your e-mails than they answered of mine. 

It may not help in this case, but I do believe in sharing experiences, both good and bad, with others, and I appreciate it when others share their experiences with me. I also believe in holding companies to their promises and to the law. The only way to keep businesses honest and to keep us consumers from getting ripped off is to expect the service we've been promised, to complain when we aren't treated right, and to file the appropriate complaints with the appropriate agencies when someone doesn't seem to be following any laws other than their own.

I might feel more sympathy for the "poor guy" if he'd not hung up on me, if they were going to get me my parts on time, if I felt I'd been treated fairly, and if it didn't seem as though the company doesn't follow FTC rules much. Who knows,  maybe they WILL overnight the parts to get them to me since I've made my displeasure known (either that, or I may never get my parts  ).

[Alphamazing]

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59438&highlight=flatout

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53379&highlight=flatout

[Destro]

I agree with you Chilly and Pandy about reporting our experiences.  I am certain that Pandy, like myself and others ordered from flatout simply because they were the cheapest place to get the parts from. But the main problem I have is that Pandy's original complaint goes back to the shipping time.  If she had "researched" the flatout site as extensively as she did the FTC site, the call would have never been made.  Secondly, to cancel an order over shipping time is silly, and I would consider that "attitude".  If you believe that when you order an OEM part from bikebandit, ron ayers, flatout, or even your local dealer, and they will always have it in stock, then you are a fool.

[pandy]

I follow all orders I place. I generally get confirmation e-mails, tracking information, and have no problem reaching customer service when I have a question with good vendors. When my order on Flatout hadn't change from "received" after a week, I thought it was time to follow up and make sure everything was on track.

Had Chris given me even an *estimated* ship date, I wouldn't have been happy that I'd have to wait longer than the site promised, but I could have lived with that. But Chris didn't answer e-mails, he couldn't tell me when THEY would receive my parts, and he had no clue as to when *I* would receive my parts. Hanging up on me was the icing on the cake. If he couldn't deal with my problem, why hang up on me? Why not give my call to his supervisor?

If cancelling an order because it's not going to be delivered when promised is attitude, then I have attitude.  I, indeed, tried Flatout because their prices are good, but I will not stay with a seller who does not offer a complete package (good prices, good communication, good customer service). I don't expect online stores to have everything in stock, but I *do* expect to be promptly notified if there's going to be a delay (as Flatout's website promises). I agree with you that I expected more from Flatout than they can deliver. Prices will help me decide to try a business, but prices won't *keep* my business if I'm not happy with how the business operates.

Chris posted a littler earlier on another motorcycle site that my parts were in and would ship today. They knew the status of my order before I did.  Frankly, I don't think I would have received any sort of response had I not posted my experience in public forums.

[starwalt]

...If you believe that when you order an OEM part from bikebandit, ron ayers, flatout, or even your local dealer, and they will always have it in stock, then you are a fool.

A little harsh analysis, but true from the perspective of the bike parts business.

When I order bike parts from my local dealer, I have to pay up front.
They now have my money and I have no parts.
"When will the parts be in?" I ask.
"Don't know. It could be tomorrow, but we will call you when they are in."

A couple days go by. The days turn into a week plus. No call.
I go by the following Saturday, "Hey yall! My parts get in?"

"Uh, I don't know. I haven't seen anything from Suzuki this week."
He leaves the counter and goes in the back. He returns empty handed.
"Sorry man. I'll call you to let you know when it comes in."

Eventually I get my parts, but never received a call.
So what's my point?

[begin rant]

In general, we have to expect mediocre service because I think the dealers/sellers are at the mercy of Suzuki (or fill in your favorite manufacturer). The dealer/seller has no incentive to stock anything other than oil filters and fuses. Maybe tires, but that's also a risk most won't take.

So what can we demand? Communication. It is dirt cheap and everywhere.
That was the genesis of Pandy's ire.

I deal with customer service issues for a living. Nobody wants to be ignored much less disconnected. FTC rules not withstanding -- every state has retail laws regarding payment, products, etc. - they could have won her by simply communicating quickly and restating their policies immediately after her order was placed. A periodic email regarding order status wouldn't hurt either.

This whole restock fee for something that doesn't exist seems fishy to me. Sorta sounds like the "Oh. You are paying with a credit card? I'm sorry, but the price is now going up." thing that businesses were doing.  I understand the need, but hell, that's one of the costs of doing business. They get to write that stuff off as an expense. <grumble>

[end rant]

[pandy]

I have a hard time accepting mediocre service, especially since there are so many businesses who give first-class service (such as New Enough and Helimot's). I think accepting for, and paying good money for, lousy service simply perpetuates that lousy service. When shops/businesses start losing business....that's when they start to look at what they're doing and make some changes (if they're smart and want to stay in business).

If I'd done my homework, though, I'd have found that Flatout's poor customer service goes way back. Whenever complaints are posted on websites, Flatout attributes the problems to not enough staff, staff changes, it was the clerk's fault and the clerk's no longer with them, procedure changes, etc. It's generally the same report with each new round of complaints. I generally DO check out companies before purchasing from them, but for some reason I jumped the gun with this one, and BOY have I learned a good lesson! 

One of the ladies in one of the FZ1 threads Alpha posted yesterday never did get her entire order (she gave up).

The Suzuki dealership that I bought my bike from had most of the parts in stock, but their prices were more expensive to pick up than they were to order online. However, you have shipping costs when you order online, so it all comes out the same (I would match my own online prices if I were Bike World..... Road Rider matches its own online prices, even when their prices are higher in the store). I've heard excellent things about one of our local shops, so I'll be checking with them next time I drop my....er....next time I need parts. 

starwalt is absolutely right. A little communication would have gone a long way, and I'd fire a customer service rep who hung up on a customer without escalating the call (of course, if Chris owns the business, then I guess that would simply be their MO  ). I called to get the status of my order. The status of my order was that they had no clue. When I told him I'd dispute any restocking charge he put on our credit card, he hung up on me and the full amount showed immediately up on our credit card (before they even *knew* when they'd receive the parts or be able to ship them). That seems like a rather strange way of keeping customers. He claims that I started the call rudely, but why would I do that when I simply wanted an update? Oh well. Now I know where not to shop. 

BTW, an update: there is no update. Chris posted on BARF yesterday that my order shipped yesterday. The status on Flatout's website for my order still reads "received"....as in, they've received my order. So...no tracking #, no ETA, no change. I've still heard nary a peep from Flatout.   

[Chilly Willy]

I love this line from the manager of Flatout:

"Every single employee of Flat Out Motorsports will conduct business with integrity or they will be removed."

If that's the case, why is Chris still working there? 

Chilly

[pandy]

I think they have a unique definition of integrity. 

[Alphamazing]

I'm with you pandy, if a business refuses to handle customer service with anything but enthusiasm, they will lose my business.

Some businesses I will no longer use:
Flatout Motorcycles
Fieldsheer (although I'm on the edge about this one, I was still very dissatisfied with their customer service)
MAW
Wal-Mart (or at least the one a little ways south of me)
RiderGearOnline.com

Businesses I encourage others to use simply because of my experiences with customer service:
Randalls (Safeway, etc)
Dell (never had any issues with them helping me)
Mr. Cycles
Motorcycle-Superstore.com
SandhillsPowersports.com
BrocktonCycle.com
NewEnough.com

[pandy]

Here's Flatout's latest posting (on a public forum...I've still received nothing from them):


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chris@flatout
please check your e-mail. your tracking was sent to you. i dont want you to tell people in didnt send that to you also. also by the way 10 working days would be on the 8th not the 7th. if we are talking laws here, here is one for you it is called libel check it out. thank you a have a nice day.
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And I replied:
I've had no e-mail from you. I have no tracking from you. The last I checked on your website, the status still read "received," as in, my order has been received.

li·bel n. A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.

Do you always threaten to sue customers who are dissatisfied with your service? The parts are due on the 7th. The clock starts the day you receive the order, which was the 25th. Those are the FTC's rules, not mine. 25th, 26th, 27th, 30th, 31st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th...10 business day. I look forward to receiving my parts by the 7th.
___________________________________________

So....anyone want to order from this company? 

[Jarrett]

hmmm, ordered something and it didn't show up like you thought it would?...  Well, let me try and keep this civil.  Sounds to me like your complaint is unjust.  If you fail to read the fine print, then you're at fault, not the company.  I had a similar issue with a rear rim.  Took 7 days to ship.  I had every right to complain, and I did, because there was no fine print, and 7 days is too long to sit on my money.  But in your case, they had thier back covered.  You called them up expecting to tear them a new one.  When you were told that 7-10 was SOP, what more did you want?  You wanted to cancel, as I'm sure most other folks would have and had done in the past, so they slam you with a outrageous 20% restocking fee.  Well why do you think it is so high?  Maybe because people don't read fine print.  It's not thier fault that they don't have the item in stock, it's not thier fault that you didn't read the fine print.  They shouldn't have hung up on you, but it happens, get over it.  I understand your point of view, but I feel that you are wrong.

[cafeboy]

 

hmmm, ordered something and it didn't show up like you thought it would?... Well, let me try and keep this civil. Sounds to me like your complaint is unjust. If you fail to read the fine print, then you're at fault, not the company. I had a similar issue with a rear rim. Took 7 days to ship. I had every right to complain, and I did, because there was no fine print, and 7 days it too long to sit on my money. But in your case, they had thier back covered. You called them up expecting to tear them a new one. When you were told that 7-10 was SOP, what more did you want? You wanted to cancel, as I'm sure most other folks would have and had done in the past, so they slam you with a outrageous 20% restocking fee. Well why do you think it is so high? Maybe because people don't read fine print. It's not thier fault that they don't have the item in stock, it's not thier fault that you didn't read the fine print. They shouldn't have hung up on you, but it happens, get over it. I understand your point of view, but I feel that you are wrong.

                                                   SHUT UP and quit crying  i didn't get my decals ----my decals-----my decals           

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

 

hmmm, ordered something and it didn't show up like you thought it would?... Well, let me try and keep this civil. Sounds to me like your complaint is unjust. If you fail to read the fine print, then you're at fault, not the company. I had a similar issue with a rear rim. Took 7 days to ship. I had every right to complain, and I did, because there was no fine print, and 7 days it too long to sit on my money. But in your case, they had thier back covered. You called them up expecting to tear them a new one. When you were told that 7-10 was SOP, what more did you want? You wanted to cancel, as I'm sure most other folks would have and had done in the past, so they slam you with a outrageous 20% restocking fee. Well why do you think it is so high? Maybe because people don't read fine print. It's not thier fault that they don't have the item in stock, it's not thier fault that you didn't read the fine print. They shouldn't have hung up on you, but it happens, get over it. I understand your point of view, but I feel that you are wrong.

SHUT UP and quit crying  i didn't get my decals ----my decals-----my decals           

decals... decals..... decals......