FIXED: Starting Problem, starter spins but crankshaft doesnt turn?

[68gtcs]

Ok, here's my problem, when I press the start button the starter spins but the crank doesn't move.  Is the "Crankshaft Gear" supposed to move freely on the crank?  Mine does and I'm wondering if there is a keeper key in there or something that engages the gear on the crankshaft to spin the crankshaft when the starter is on.  I haven't pulled off the crankshaft bolt because I have to borrow a friend's impact wrench to get it off.  It just seems odd to me that the crank shaft gear freewheels.

Also just for curiosity sake how does the starter engage and disengage, I'm familiar with how a car spring loaded starter works, but how does it work on a bike?  The "starter idle gear" is free to move in and out on its center shaft.  I noticed on the crank case cover it only allows it so slide a certain distance, but there wasn't a spring or anything on the shaft.

Any expertise is greatly appreciated.


Thanks!

[dgyver]

The "Crankshaft Gear" has 3 dogs in the starter clutch which engage it to the crank shaft when the starter spins but will free wheel when the engine spins.

The diagram may help:
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0027/starter_clutch/starter_clutch.cfm?man=su&groupid=3110&parent=3070

[68gtcs]

So you think I should replace the springs and rollers in the starter clutch?  And that will allow the starter to turn the crank properly?

Thanks.

[dgyver]

It is possible that some (or all) of the dogs (rollers) are not engaging. Maybe the springs are bad or are gummed up The pins or rollers could be worn. Since they are not expensive, might as well replace it all when you have it apart. At least clean them add see if that helps.

[starwalt]

Also just for curiosity sake how does the starter engage and disengage...

Glad you asked! I sorta went through the same thing, except my starter gear (the big one) was stuck on the rotor (the one with the orange magnets). From that experience came THIS FAQ.

The springs in the clutch that push the dogs onto the crankshaft may be shot. Regardless, you will have to pull the rotor to get to them.

Look HERE for the way I made a tool to pull my rotor.

If you look over the photo sections of my bellsouth page, you may see some other tips on GS wrenching.

On the other hand, dgyver's forgotten more about the GS than I will know. 

[dgyver]

I figured you would be chiming in.

The sad part of that is I know I have forgotten stuff but I cannot remember what I forgot.

[68gtcs]

Thanks for the help y'all, I'll take it apart tonight and see if I can clean it up and make it work.  If not looks like I'd be ordering some new parts, thanks again for the help, I'll keep you posted on the results.

[68gtcs]

Is it possible that I have an incorrect starter in my bike?

I took apart the starter clutch and cleaned everything up.  I put it back together and still same thing, this is what I noticed.

My starter turns the crank in a CLOCK-WISE rotation, which is just freewheels all day long.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the crank must be turned in a counter-clock-wise rotation to start and put power to the wheel.  The clutch pack locks up, like I would expect it to, when I turn it by hand in a counter-clock-wise rotation.

If my assumptions are correct, how can the starter be turning the gears in the wrong direction?  Wrong year starter?  Something wired backwards?

Again, thanks for your inputs.....

[68gtcs]

Ok, here's a picture of what is going on....

[68gtcs]

My starter motor model number is 31100-20C00, which is the same number listed on the Ron Ayers website. 

[rangerbrown]

is your battey connected right? the - onthe - and + on +

i know its a off chance but....

[The Buddha]

Yea what he said, battery fitted right though I have seen it blow fuses on the one ocassion I slapped it in backwards ... but that was a virago 535
Maybe the starter was put together backwards. I believe the started body is ground, so I believe it cannot be wired backwards. Hooking up the - ve to it wont do anything if battery is on right ... so something else inside the starter. Magnets or brushes or somehting can be reversed.
Cool.
Srinath.

[3imo]

Ok, here's a picture of what is going on....

hmmmm...wierd.

[3imo]

Try wiring the motor directly to the battery and see if it runs the correct way.

The starter body should be grounded, as Srinath said, But I would have to take a closer look to see how you could get it to run backwards.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/eimoytiana/wire.jpg



I don't know, but this bugs me. I'll take a look at my set up later today.

[68gtcs]

When the starter is directly connected to the battery with the ground going through the chassis and the + wire going to the node, it spins clock-wise.

I hooked the starter chassis to + and the node to - and the starter spun in the counter-clock-wise direction.

The bike runs great if you pop start it, so I would think the battery is not in backwards, but I will check it tonight when I get home.

[3imo]

Where did you get this bike?  has someone else been working on it?

[68gtcs]

I bought it on craigslist, the guy had it for 1.5 years.  He said it has a starter relay problem, which it does, the power and starter wire nides are coming out of the relay.  But, as it turns out thats not the only problem keeping the bike from starting when you press the button.

I bought the bike this past weekend, so really I no nothing about the history of the bike.  Its got a little cam or valve knock to it, but it runs great once you pop start it.

[68gtcs]

So is it possible the starter was rebuilt incorrectly, is this something I can fix?  Anyone know what to look for or how to fix it?

Thanks.

[The Buddha]

Its possible that somehting was installed backwards. now I haven't split a GS starter but the virago starter I split last year ... sheesh, I dont remember ...
However I have seen the oil pump drive gear on a savage installed backwards ... POS killed it.
Cool.
Srinath.

[3imo]

I bought it on craigslist, the guy had it for 1.5 years.  He said it has a starter relay problem, which it does, the power and starter wire nides are coming out of the relay.

OK.. HE said it had a starter relay problem. At this point I also would assume the worst, that the PO opened the starter and possibly tried to rebuild it.

- to chassis and the + to the node, it spins clock-wise.
+ to chassis and the - to the node, it spins counter-clock-wise.

I used to sell AC/DC motors (industrial 50hp+) and I can't picture what could be done to a starter motor that would reverse the polarity and make it spin the wrong way with the correct connection. I know it can be done but I am not sure how you would do it with a starter motor.

Have you checked Starwalt's site?  He may have something that could help.  Otherwise I will tear into one of my spare starters tonight and see if I can recreate your symptoms.