Electrical Problems

[afcno9]

I have a problem with my '91 Suzuki GS500. When i try starting it i can here the relay ticking over quickly, the headlights start off on full power, the oil and neutral lights are as bright as they should be but with in twenty seconds or so the headlights and dashboard lights begin to fade. One of the indicators is constantly on (it does not flash). After about 30 seconds you can no longer here the relay at all and nothing works. Leave it for a while and the same thing happens. I can get the bike to start by push starting it but within a minute it cuts out and dies.
Any ideas? might it have something to do with not being earthered properly and if so where do I go about looking for route of the problem?

Any help greatly appreciated. My housemate was a car mechanic for a short amount of time so could probably fix it if he knew what he was looking for.

Many Thanks!!!!

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Battery. Charge and/or replace it.

[afcno9]

The battery is new and was fully charged when we put the new alternator in.  Could it be that we fitted the alternator incorrectly?

[3imo]

I would have a hard time believeing that changing the Generator would cause the starter to not turn over.

is this what you call the "alternator"

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view~schem_dept_id~710475~section_dept_id~1~section_dept_name~OEM+%28Stock+Parts%29~dept_type_id~2~model_dept_year~2001~model_dept_mfr~Suzuki~model_dept_id~703275~model_dept_name~GS500K1.asp

You have classic symptoms of a bad battery or a bad connection.  Try this:
#1 disconnect and remove your battery. Make sure it is disconnected. (a dead battery could cause the bike to turn off after 30sec.)

#2 jump the bike with a car or another fresh battery. leave the bike connected to the car/battery.  see how long it will run.

if it stays running you need to either charge or replace your batt. If not ...welll then let us know and we will brain storm.

Also tell us more about what things you have done, like "changing the alternator"

good luck

[starwalt]

+1 with 3imo.

We are assuming the following:

• The battery had the corrrect acid and was at proper level at the installation time.
• The battery was installed immediately after charging.
• The alternator work was complete prior to installing the battery
• You did'nt spend 15 minutes trying to start the engine and run the battery down.

Get back to us and let us know.

[CirclesCenter]

Ok I'm going to shoot off in a few directions here. Kerry, etc. Feel free to reel me in if you've got better ideas.

Regulator/Rectifier. (Not a sole cause but a contributor, this would make the bike refuse to charge.)

Blinker 3-way switch faulty. (That would explain the indicator)

The little clicker bit (I'm going to think of the name in twenty minutes while I'm falling asleep...) could be unhappy, but not sure...

Dead battery. (This one is almost certain, but this is a symptom in this case, not a cause.)




First I say remove battery and connect a power source that is known to be good. I.E. To your car's battery. whilst the car is running start the GS and let it run for a bit to see if it dies. (3imo's #1 and #2)

If it stays running my money is on the regulator. (Not that I have personal experience that left me beside the road or anything.)

Then we will play with your blinkers.

Also get Kragen/Schucks/Advance Auto to test your battery for you whilst you have it out.

[3imo]

From his list of symptoms, I do not see a need to suspect the Regulator/rectifier. He said the battery was new and the engine will not turn over. I think he hasn't had a chance to even try and charge his batt because he can't get the bike running.

the blinker issue is besides the point. most likely an issue with the Turn signal relay.

The little "clicker" which afcno9 calls a "relay", I believe is the solenoid that engages the starter gear to the crankshaft.
If this clicks and the engine does not turn over, that is a classic symptom of a weak battery without enough cranking amps to turn the engine over.

I know he said he had a new batt, but unless he 's not telling us something, all signs point to a weak battery. +1 on getting it tested.

[afcno9]

Thaankyou for all the replies, On the day we fit the alternator i took the battery which was only 2/3 weeks old and asked them to charge it fir me. We then fitted the alternator and had the mentioned problems.

What other bits of information are needed?

My friend believes that it could be a dodgey electrical connection or bad earth, but where??? Thats the big problem IF that is the case.

[CirclesCenter]

Dead battery. (This one is almost certain, but this is a symptom in this case, not a cause.)

Also get Kragen/Schucks/Advance Auto to test your battery for you whilst you have it out.

Bad connection also sounds fairly likely. It is obvious that you've got more than one problem though.

[CirclesCenter]

Or I could just be full of shaZam!. That's why I hate driveway diagnosis.

700 posts are worth nothing compared to two minutes with the bike.

[sledge]

My view is that it is the battery, Its not holding a charge. The fact it will take a charge and shows 12v across the terminals doesnt always mean its ok. What matters is the ability of the battery to hold charge and deliver enough current when its under maximum load and trying to spin the starter motor. If it cant do this it will almost instantly go flat and from your description this is what seems to be happening. You need to have the battery load tested with a piece of equipment similar to this before going any further. The Tester recreates the conditions the battery is put under when its in the bike. Auto-electrical shops and Kwik-fit type tyre depots usually have them and will do the test for free.

http://www.abbeypowertools.co.uk/battery-care/battery-testers-and-accessorie/showitem-5624-53090.aspx

[3imo]

also a dead battery will keep the engine from running after you jump start it.

[natedawg120]

what you need to do is test the battery.  All you need to do it is a voltmeter, digital is nice.  A not so bad but cheap one can be found at most small electronics stores, like radioshack.  However i am feeling really lazy and i found a nice site that spells it out for me ...

LINK - http://www.forparts.com/techbosbattery.htm

[Gookie]

Few things said in the last few posts that caught my attention.

First and foremost. I wouldn't recommend connecting your bike to your, or someone else's, car while both vehicles are running. It will be EXCESSIVELY hard on both alternators and voltage regulators.

You say you had the battery charged by someone else just before you did the alternator work/whilst doing the alternator work. It's a good possibility that they cooked your battery. It's also a good possibility that your alternator is f%$ked.

I would recommend connecting a car battery (take it out of the car...) to your bike via booster cables. Make sure not to short the booster cables to themselves or to the frame of your bike. And ESPECIALLY make sure not to short them to the gas tank. (Basically, just be careful with booster cables, mistakes happen to the best of us). Before connecting the battery to your bike measure the voltage on the battery. Should be around 12V. If it is UNDER 12V, find a GOOD car battery... ... ...

If your bike runs, and, it probably will, we've proven absolutely nothing.  While your bike is running connected to the car battery, measure the voltage across the car battery. Should be somewhere in the range of 13 to 14 volts. If it's out of those ranges, something is wrong with your charging system. Since you just replaced the alternator (question just popped into my mind actually, WHY did you replace the alternator in the first place? What happened to the old one?) I'd look there first. Make 100% sure it's connected right. I know from looking at the electrical drawings for the bike only, that it's a 3 phase generator, that uses and SCR rectifier. If you have the 3 wires coming out the alternator out of order that could cause a problem. (If there are 3 wires... I've never done this job myself, so, I'm not 100% sure)

If it's within 13-14 volts, and your bike runs normally (obviously you wont be able to ride it, but, runs normally from what you can tell sitting in the driveway) I hate to say it, but it's probably just the battery.

Hmm, one other idea I just had. Check your wiring (what you can physically see by taking the seat / gas tank off, etc.) for physical damage. Something may have got smashed at one point in time that you didn't notice, and now you've got something shorting. Highly unlikely, but, having a bad ground seems highly unlikely to me too...

Let us know what you find.

[3imo]

Few things said in the last few posts that caught my attention.

First and foremost. I wouldn't recommend connecting your bike to your, or someone else's, car while both vehicles are running. It will be EXCESSIVELY hard on both alternators and voltage regulators.

Please explain how you come to this conclusion.


-------------------------------------

The GS500 generator does not generate enough of a charge to charge the battery until about 5000 RPMS.

This is significant because a dead battery within the charging circuit will be such a drain at Idle that the generator will not be able to provide a spark at the spark plug to keep the bike running.


Now IF his battery is good and he can absolutely rule that out, then YES the next step in troubleshooting will be the charging system and then YES it is a good possiblity his generator is f%&ked.

So until he comes back and says " I connected it to a known good battery....."  we will never know.