Licence for Australia, USA, UK ETC - PLease Read

[JohnNS]

Here in Estonia you must be at least 21years old to ride a bike with more than 25Kw or have at least two or more years of bike riding experience.

Tere Toenis! Kuidas sa elad?      Ma armastan Eestimaa!  

As it was stated earlier, here in Canada it's painfully easy to get your lisence. I even knew of a person who actually fell while taking their test and they still passed.    

To make matters worse, you have dealers (or at least dealer) around where I am who have no ethics at all. When I was looking to buy my first streetbike, the owner of one of the local shops was trying very hard to sell me a Fireblade.     "You'd be fine on that" he said  

John

[glenn9171]

I went to the DMV and said I would like my motorcycle endorsement.  They told me to answer the 25 questions on the written test.  I had to get 20 correct in order to pass.  I got 22 right.  Then off to the riding portion.  The DMV guy/gal follows you to your bike.  Present him/her with your proof of insurance, registration, inspection sticker (brake tag).  Start bike.  Display brake lights, turn signals, etc.  Exit west end of parking lot.  Turn right.  Enter North end of parking lot.  Park bike wherever you want.  If you made it back alive and in one piece, you now have a motorcycle licence.  

The thing that gets us here is that you cannot get an endorsement without proof of insurance.  But you cannot get insurance without the endorsement.   I have insurance through Progressive and they will grant you a few days to get the endorsement and bring it in to them, but many companies will not do this.  You have to borrow a motorcycle to use on the test.  If you can't do this, you are screwed.

[Laura]

Dave, I completely agree with everything you wrote. Also, as far as trying to sell inappropriate bikes to beginners, I agree that it is irresponsible. Unfortunately, in the US there really aren't many choices of beginner bikes, especially if you don't want a dual purpose or a cruiser. I would have preferred to buy a new motorcycle, but the only new 500cc I could find was a Ninja. I suppose if we had more regulations, we might have more of a choice in beginner bikes. I'm glad we don't have more regulations, though. I'm also glad I didn't have to spend a lot of money to get a motorcycle license. I think my MSF class was about $70, and the DMV fees were about $20.

Laura

[KevinC]

I've never understood this "responsible for your own safety" arguement. People just are not that smart or aware to possibly do that on a continuous basis. We all rely on balconies not to collapse, elevators not to fall, food and water to be safe, all through legislation and government inspections. There is no way any of us can continuously evaluate whether a building stucture is sound, or that a microwave dinner is being prepared safely.

I would like to be able to ride down the road with some assurance that the big hunks of sheet metal all around me won't do strange things and try to kill me. The only way to come close to that is through driver training and legislation.

Or maybe we need heat rays on our motorcycles, so we can enforce the rules of the road and protect ourselves?

[2ride4life7]

Sorry to say this but new riders suck! Generally people new at anything suck!

thats bollocks. i am a new rider in the U.K i am 17 and restricted to a 33bhp for 2 years. your comment on new rider suck is bogus. if you check out the stats you will find that its old peeps who used to ride a bike when they were 20 and then stopped for 20 years then fancied another go then cant handel it and run into the side of a bus . i no i am inexperenced but it dont mean i suck.

here in england if you are under 21 you can get a full lisence and ride a 3bhp for 2 year then ride anything. if your over 21 you can pass your test and then buy a gsx r1000 :lol:  if you want. i think it should be the same for everyone cos bike are deadly.

[joev]

We all rely on balconies not to collapse, elevators not to fall, food and water to be safe, all through legislation and government inspections.

I would like to be able to ride down the road with some assurance that the big hunks of sheet metal all around me won't do strange things and try to kill me. The only way to come close to that is through driver training and legislation.

Cars and motorcycles also go through government inspections as well to be deemed safe on the road.  

The key issue is neglegence.  People who drive cars and bikes dangerously are the issue.  Food is easily contaminated by a careless cook, yet there is no government mandated licensing for chefs and burger-flippers.

[JeffD]

Chill out man, I'm sure they didn't mean sucks in a bad way, but how many times did you fall down when you learned how to walk?  How many times did you put your foot down in a turn because it *felt* like you were going to fall? how many times.......   get the point.   I agree that if someone were to find a good buddy to teach them how to ride *SAFELY* then we woulden't need any regulation, but what about the people that are too arrogant to get help and end up in debt from hospital bills, or DEAD?    And yes there are a few prodigy people out there but just because you can ride a bicycle doesn't mean you can ride a GSXR1000.  Everyday I think I dont need training in this, in that, but really I do.  Take this extreem example.  I want to get my Skydiving license and feel as though I already know how to skydive (done 1 tandem) so I think I could handle it without a problem.  So what if I go to a dropzone and say, "oh yeah I've jumped off some pretty high diving boards, and went bungie jumping, so no problem"  then jump out of the plane and splat!  EVERYONE NEEDS TRAINING NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.  

[KevinC]

if you check out the stats you will find that its old peeps who used to ride a bike when they were 20 and then stopped for 20 years then fancied another go then cant handel it and run into the side of a bus.

Ah, actually you better check the stats.

That was a story that went around, when they noticed there was more older riders having accidents. What they failed to take into account at the time was that there was also a recent large increase in the number of older riders. When they re-did the statistics to take into account the actual present rider age distribution, it is still the young guys eating it on bikes by a huge margin.

Yes, I am an old guy who started riding bikes again. I also race, and kick lots of young guys asses, on a bike with 50% less power than they have.

Learining to ride a motorcycle isn't easy, and new riders are very vulnerable. It used to be (in NA) you had a 90% or so chance of having an accident in your first 10,000 miles. Not sure if that still holds.

[DrtRydr23]

I would agree with 2ride4life that regulations should be the same for everyone, regardless of age.  Governments commonly equate age with experience or maturity but that is rarely the case.  If you're over 21, that just means that you're more likely to drink and ride your motorcycle than someone under 21.  

However I would also say that new riders do generally suck.  It's the nature of being new at things.  No one jumps on a bike for the first time and goes off scraping pegs while maintaining a safe riding style.  It inherently can't happen because you don't know the limits of the machine you're on.  The prodigies that are good at stuff the first time they try it are a very non-significant percentage of the population (statistcally speaking anyway).  So generally, people that are new at things suck at them, maybe not terribly, but their much more likely to make a mistake due to lack of knowledge and experience.   People that give up riding and come back are the same way.  They may remember how to ride, but they don't know the limits of their machine very well.

On the subject of restricting engine size of the newbie rider (sorry I'm an opinionated guy) I'm more on the side of freedom of choice.  A newbie that will try wheelies and stoppies on a 650 or 1000cc bike will try them on a 250cc machine as well.  In some ways its good to restrict engine size, but I think it may give people a false sense of security.  It tells them that the 250's not dangerous because they let me ride it, whilethe 650 is because I can't touch it.  Then they're more likely to push their limits because they think they'll be okay on a 250.  I guess basically what I'm saying is that it doesn't take a 1000cc bike to run into the back of a car, pull into traffic, lanesplit, highside, lowside, ....etc.  All those things can be done on any size bike.  You can't make someone respect their bike by limiting its size, they either do or they don't.  If they don't, you'll know because they'll be the ones you hear about on the news.

John L.

[KevinC]

Cars and motorcycles also go through government inspections as well to be deemed safe on the road.  

The key issue is neglegence.  People who drive cars and bikes dangerously are the issue.  Food is easily contaminated by a careless cook, yet there is no government mandated licensing for chefs and burger-flippers.

In most of North America, vehicle inspections are cursory or non-existent.

But that wasn't my point. Most drivers in NA don't even know they are dangerous, or what proper driving habist are. They have no training or testing to speak of.

Even buger joint kitchens are inspected regularly for safe food practices. I would be pleased if drivers were as well controlled as burger flippers.

[tkm433]

In South Carolina:

If you do not have a licence of any type from the state you will need to prove who you are in the form of a birth certificate, social sercurity card and other info.

If you have a current drivers licence you will first apply for a motorcycle permit which will require you to pass an eye exam and a written test and if you pass they will give you a new picture id that is your motorcycle permit.  The permit is good for 6 months and only allows to to ride during daylight hours and does not allow you to ride a passenger.

If you are under 18 years of age you must wear a helmet in South Carolina and if you are over 18 then it is a right to die State in that you are not required to wear a helmet.

At anytime during the 6 month pemit period you can go back to the DMV and take the road course test and at least at my DMV you can go out on the course to practice anytime that the DMV is open.

The road course is a bunch of orange saftey cones set up in a pattern that so that you can be tested on your ability to do low speed turns without putting your feet down or stalling the bike.  They also make you do a couple of braking test to see if you know how to use the brakes.  

Once you pass the test they issue you a new licence that shows that you are permitted to ride a motorcycle.

As for what size bike you can start out with that is up to the rider.  You can go out and buya moped or a GSX1300R.

As for myself when I started riding there were no limitations on a permit as to when I could use the bike and the permit was good for one year and due to my job at the time and how I worked the the same hours as the DMV I managed to ride on a permit for close to four years in which time I racked up close to 60,000 miles on my bikes.  Everytime I went by the DMV on my lunh break either there were a couple of raod test in front of me or they had not set up the course for that day so I just had my permit extended.

[glenn9171]

It's true that the same person that would do wheelies on a 1000cc bike would do them on a 250cc.  But he would be doing them from a standstill, and not at 100+MPH on the interstate.  Plus, one needs to lear throttle control, especially in turns.  That is one of the biggest newbie mistakes.  I know it was one of mine.  Something unexpected somes up and you panic.  Panic on a GS500 or Nina 250 does not net the same results as the same reaction on a GSXR1000.

[DrtRydr23]

I agree that there is a huge power difference between a 250 and a 1000, but I also don't think that a newbie is going to try wheelies at 100+mph on the interstate.  If they do, they deserve what they get because that's just dumb and the world's a safer place without them.  I would also agree that throttle control is a major issue and that panic on a big bike is much different than panic on a smaller bike.  That is one of the reasons that I think restricting engine size CAN be a good thing.  However I'm still against it because if you put more effort into teaching someone how to ride their bike safely and correctly, then they'll treat a 250 in a similar manner as a 1000.  For those people that are going to try 100mph wheelies right outta the box...hopefully educating them about motorcycles and safety would deter that, but I would doubt it.

Personally I am a safe rider.  I haven't taken a MSF course, but I have been riding for a couple years without any accidents or moving drops (knock on wood *knock knock*).  I take safety on motorcycles seriously as does everyone on this message board.  I watch the sides of the roads for obstacles or possible hazards, I'm careful at intersections to make sure it's clear before I go, I think about the best ways out of possible bad situations,.....I could go on.  My point is that I, like everyone else here, take riding seriously.  It would be a shame to make us ride a bike that we wouldn't really want because some people are too stubborn/dumb/unconcerned to be responsible.

John L.

[mrslush50]

I'd definitely take the German approach to "freedom" (as all the Yanks seem to like to call it) where the license requirements for cars and bikes are much more severe, but then you can have the freedom to drive at a speed you deem safe for the conditions. The drivers on the Autobahn were great to drive with - very disciplined.

The fatal accident rate on German Autobahns is much lower, at unlimited speeds, than in North America with all it's speed limits...

now this, at least in theory, isn't such a bad idea.  go ahead, make it more dificult for people to get their license.  but when you do, recognize that, now that they have it, they're able to make decisions about speed, type of motorcycle etc.. on their own.

there are problems with it of course.  especially if the US tried to switch to this system.  but it certainly has it's merits.

2ride4life7 wrote:

your comment on new rider suck is bogus

JeffD wrote:

Chill out man, I'm sure they didn't mean sucks in a bad way

No actually I did mean suck in a bad way. But it should not cause offence because everyone was a new rider... anyone who thinks that they were a great rider when they first threw their leg over a bike is kidding themselves - AND PEOPLE NEED TO BE TOLD - 2ride4life7 your 17 man I am only 23 we still need years and years more on a bike and even then we can learn more. Im not flaming you dude its just advise that I have gained from experience - I thought I was hot shaZam! when I got on my Honda F4i until I took it to the track and people made a fool of me by lapping me time and time again, I thought there was something wrong with my bike - nothing wrong with my bike just my ability!

There is no place to hide on a track - talk it up as much as you like on the street!

I got my ass kicked by a 50 year old guy on a 50 year old bike through 30km's of twisties when I had my F4i... I had been riding for 2 years, he had been riding for 30 years, I had no chance! Im not ashamed to say it, I still suck and have been riding for 4 years now... just because I have no chicken strips and can mono and do a stoppy dosent mean I can use my front brakes in turns or slide the ass of my bike into corners like MOTOGP.

Anyway - its good to see that most people see the need for strong laws and feel that new riders wether they are 17 or 70 need help and are at risk of killing themselves!

Stay Safe

[Dave Fowler]

[glenn9171]

I'd definitely take the German approach to "freedom" (as all the Yanks seem to like to call it) where the license requirements for cars and bikes are much more severe, but then you can have the freedom to drive at a speed you deem safe for the conditions. The drivers on the Autobahn were great to drive with - very disciplined.

The fatal accident rate on German Autobahns is much lower, at unlimited speeds, than in North America with all it's speed limits...

now this, at least in theory, isn't such a bad idea.  go ahead, make it more dificult for people to get their license.  but when you do, recognize that, now that they have it, they're able to make decisions about speed, type of motorcycle etc.. on their own.


The US has too many so-called "freedoms" for the Autobahn idewa to work here.  For instance, the "freedom" to eat a Taco Bell Burrito while talking on the cell phone and yelling at 4 screming brats in the back seat.  As long as we have people like this on the highways, you will never have any other form of disciplined driving.  

there are problems with it of course.  especially if the US tried to switch to this system.  but it certainly has it's merits.

[paui]

personally i think being restricted to a certain engine size would be great....if companies actually did some r&d on 250's and such imagine how much of a hoot they would be to ride! i bet sooner or later someone would make a 250cc racing class and it wouldnt be crazy for a privateer to have some chance against the factories (or at least be scouted by one)
regardless of age, i think one should be completely comfortable in any situation on a bike to be able to move up...i was going to get a 250 ninja as my first bike bc i thought the gs was too big! the ninja is like 300lb dry and is just as fast as the gs (i think)
i think new riders should be restricted to 250cc's for at least a year unless you wanna take a super-hard and expensive road test to bypass the restrictions (for all those who rode dirtbikes since they learned to walk)
then u should take a road test every time you want to move up in cc's
thats just my opinion tho.....

[KevinC]

if companies actually did some r&d on 250's and such imagine how much of a hoot they would be to ride! i bet sooner or later someone would make a 250cc racing class and it wouldnt be crazy for a privateer to have some chance against the factories (or at least be scouted by one)...

You should check out the 125 and 250 cc GP racing that the rest of the world does. Admittedly they are 2 strokes at the moment, but is great racing. Privateers still don't do that well against the factory teams, who hire the best riders and have the best equipment, but there may be a few more private teams.

There are some very cool small bikes available outside North America. They don't bring them here, because there is no market.

The 250 AMA class is being shut down this year I believe.

[paui]

is they made sporty 4 stroke 250's in the USA id be all over them in a second.....i have a feeling 2 strokes arent so reliable and theyre not too welcome in our country anyway...