stoppies on a gs500 f?????

[nArKeD]

I was well in the powerband I was in 3rd gear, wringing the piss out of it, so that I had plenty of engine braking at my disposal. We're not taking that into account though. In just braking, I would put front+rear against just front any day of the week.  I didn't lock the rear, I didn't lock the front, I stood the bike up, got on the brakes, and prayed. It worked, after a fashion. Mebbe I'll do some runs with measured speeds and stopping distances, to probe my point.

Do the words bias, scientific study, or anecdotal evidence mean anything to you?

I have no doubt that you can stop faster by maximizing braking power on both wheels.  However, for most riders the likelihood of a lockup outweighs the decrease in stopping distance of 5-10 feet.  A lot of professional racers use the rear brake very sparingly for this very reason.  Mathematically and economically, it's just like an insurance problem

Using the figures from sport rider. http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9510_motorcycle_braking_tips/

Front + Rear: 146 ft.
Front:  151
Front + Rear w/ lockup (I made this figure up): 175
Chance of lockup under maximal Front+Rear braking (made this up as well): 20%

146(. + 175 (.2) = 151.8 ft. Expected stopping distance using Front and Rear vs. 151 using just the Front.  Why add more complexity for a limited to no gain in performance?

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Because that extra 5 feet may or may not have saved my life. Who knows. I hit that guard rail going f%$king fast. But I appreciate you linking to a study, I was going to try to find one tomorrow, I'm just too tired/lazy to do any googling now.

Out of curiosity, what time zone are you in? Most people aren't up as late as I am.

[domas]

Locking up rear, not only decreases stopping distance, it also forces rear of a bike go around the front. That means your bike will go sideways. If you don't release the rear brake very quickly, you can be in deep trouble. If you keep it unreleased you will eventually stop sideways, or if speed is high you will lowside. If you release your brake while at a speed and going sideways, you will highside. Now theoretically you can stop faster using rear brake, yes. But will you do so in emergency situation?

I have practiced a lot emergency stopping in parking lots, but in real situation i always lock the back brake  perhaps i'm just not talented. I will now practice to leave the clutch alone to use engine braking until i stop and leave the rear brake alone. I truly believe this will result in me being a better emergency braker i hope

[pandy]

I'm actually enjoying the stunting threads of late. The information has been INFORMATIVE, which is a good thing. I've been watching my stepson do wheelies....er...I mean catching wind, and I'm thinking about giving it a try (may the Goddesses help us all  )! 

Yes, I'll take pics of my mad skillz! 

[starwalt]

... I'm thinking about giving it a try (may the Goddesses help us all  )! 
Yes, I'll take pics of my mad skillz! 

I can put a stop this madness.

A Chocolate Pound Cake embargo starts the day Pandy goes squid.

I both rue and lament the need to make such a threat...but it is for her own good.

That should bring order and sanity to things now. 

Hey Pandy! 

[ohgood]

dont squeeze the shaZam! out of you're front break, your going to lock up you're front tire, and be on you're ass. Both breaks at the same time, just not to hard on either one of them.

The rear brake is useless for braking in homogenous conditions.

I call BS. Let's both accelerate to 75mph, put a guard rail in front of us, and say you can't avoid it. You stop with just your front brake. I'll use both. I only use this situation because I've been in it. I know using the rear brake helped me scrub enough speed to survive, even though the bike was totaled.

So we're at 'both vs front' again ? Interesting how it happens alot. I practice an E-STOP almost daily, once the tires are warm, and my head clear, safe area, blah, etc.

I can't imagine riding without the rear COVERED, and my fingers draped over the CLUTCH AND BRAKE at the same time. It feels unnatural for me to ride any other way. How many times will a green light and a quick start (all traffic, not just you) end up a 'oops, i meant to turn right THERE (the car almost stops completely after missing the right hand turn)' and you're still all hamfisting the go-grip ?

COVER THE REAR. COVER THE FRONT. Look over the car(s) in front of you. It's just a matter of time befor they do something stupid.
I only quoted you to agree. Good call man!

[groff22]

I've personally been in a odd situations where hard breaking was necessary and as a result I don't think I will ever use my rear brake in an emergency situation again.  I'm not sure if it's because I'm a small guy (130lbs), but when I yank on both brakes and take into consideration the percentage of front to rear braking power (75 to 25 I believe) and speed, the rear wheel becomes awfully light and as a result, locks up on me. It has on one occasions caused the bike to skid and eventually turn sideways as an old lady pulled out of a gas station just feet in front of me - it put my heart in my throught, but I did not lowside. I'm sure in other situations with just the front brake, I'd have ended up toppling over or put the front into lockdown.

I'm quite torn on the debate, and there probably isn't a right answer as everyone brakes differently and applies pressure differently given the situation and conditions they are in...

[Stephen072774]

yes, you can keep the bike straight with one front disk, but I could never get the rear up on my gs before locking the front... but I never tried that hard.  It comes much easier on other bikes, but i'm sure you know the gs isn't the best stunter.

[Susuki_Jah]

I dont think anyone has mentioned this yet, but if you decelerate to fast  the rear wheel will momentarely lock up or skid it could actually cause someone  to lose control of the bike if they don't have a grip on it in the first place or are on uneasy ground.  I use my motorcycles engine to slow down most of the time but there have been times where I had to engine break and hit the breaks and fast! its some of the most scary moments i've ever experienced in life. but the GS WILL STOP FAST if you do it right. but in a panic its hard for some of us to think it fast enough. I know I have made that mistake before. 

here is a good example. Mike and I were on a ride down to the local MC shop, well lights in VA turn yellow and then RED almost immidiately ! so when I saw the yellow light I put on the breaks quick. well I was an idiot and tried to use both break all at once and engine stopping, well breaking didnt help me anymore, I slid through the intersection like I was on ice, right in front of a cop too. I never laid down the bike and it was rather funny because the bike was just gliding a long as im laughing.   i didnt run the red light and I got through the intersection ok but what if cars had been going through there? i would have been creamed.  I was doing the speed limit too but the problem is VA lights. they dont give enough reaction time .

[Alphamazing]

yes, you can keep the bike straight with one front disk, but I could never get the rear up on my gs before locking the front... but I never tried that hard.  It comes much easier on other bikes, but i'm sure you know the gs isn't the best stunter.

Like the D ARrrrrrr-Z?  I  think the high cog and forward weight bias (especially riding balls-on-the-tank) really help that.

[Stephen072774]

yes, you can keep the bike straight with one front disk, but I could never get the rear up on my gs before locking the front... but I never tried that hard.  It comes much easier on other bikes, but i'm sure you know the gs isn't the best stunter.

Like the D ARrrrrrr-Z?  I  think the high cog and forward weight bias (especially riding balls-on-the-tank) really help that.

Heck yes, and those sweet ass forks

[pandy]

A Chocolate Pound Cake embargo starts the day Pandy goes squid.
I both rue and lament the need to make such a threat...but it is for her own good.

Hi starwalt! 

and tried to use both break all at once and engine stopping, well breaking didnt help me anymore, I slid through the intersection like I was on ice,

Ok..curiosity is killing this cat...how do you use both brakes AND engine brake at the same time!? 

[Alphamazing]

Ok..curiosity is killing this cat...how do you use both brakes AND engine brake at the same time!? 

Easy, don't clutch in. As long as the clutch is engaged, the engine is still spinning down.

[pandy]

Ok..curiosity is killing this cat...how do you use both brakes AND engine brake at the same time!? 

Easy, don't clutch in. As long as the clutch is engaged, the engine is still spinning down.

I don't think I'm coordinated enough for advanced braking...

[groff22]

lol, squeeze/depress any and all levers you can get your hands / feet on and hope for the best!! Solid!

Or you could always do what I did on my bmx, wedge your foot in the small space between your front tire and the bottom-middle of the fork... HOLD ON FER YER LIFE KIDS! woo hoo!

[Susuki_Jah]

Ok..curiosity is killing this cat...how do you use both brakes AND engine brake at the same time!? 

Easy, don't clutch in. As long as the clutch is engaged, the engine is still spinning down.

what he said 

[scratch]

For simplicity: put on the rear brake, downshift, and let the clutch out faster than slowly.

[morbidph8]

Ehhh now im confuesed about braking. The MSF course said to use both brakes. Which makes sense, but I have a old timer HA buddie who swears the front brake is useless. Im really SCARED of locking the rear wheel up. Screw it im off to the church parking lot next to the hospital to practice e braking. 

[Alphamazing]

but I have a old timer HA buddie who swears the front brake is useless.

Your buddy is a dumbass.

[morbidph8]

but I have a old timer HA buddie who swears the front brake is useless.

Your buddy is a dumbass.

Yea, I don't belive alot of what he says. But he has been riding bikes for 40+ years, never owned a helmet.