how hard is it to do this?

[Egaeus]

RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought.  The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication?  Is your bike just going to quit running? 

Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.

Umm... just make the key necessary for starting.  When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again.  Problem solved.

Except that the need for a key is undesirable in NGFL's case.  That would eliminate the convenience.

[Chuck]

RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought.  The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication?  Is your bike just going to quit running? 

Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.

Umm... just make the key necessary for starting.  When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again.  Problem solved.

Except that the need for a key is undesirable in NGFL's case.  That would eliminate the convenience.

Except if you were paying attention, even to the text that you quoted, you'd note that the key is an RFID key.

[ohgood]

The RFID tag is a cool idea, another problem that I can think of other then interference is hackers. Then again, I doubt they would guess that a gs500 would have RFID.

Crackers don't generally go after heavy and possibly deadly things like motorbikes. They like data, and proof THEY cracked something. braggin rights from a challenge. Besides, they'd have to GO OUTSIDE to steal your bike, and the basement is much more comfortable at mom's house.

Now then, with enough heads googling about, someone will hit a link or three about keyless ignition. Maybe find a batch of overstocked switches on eBay or craigslist ? Keep hunting about, someone needs to unload something relevant... me hopes.

[MrDan]

A simpler idea, is just hide a little togle switch somewhere and use that instead of a key. I had a bike and the ignition switch started falling apart so I just put a little toggle switch under the tank and it worked fine and never got stolen.

How would that work?  My brain can't wrap itself around that at the moment.

Err.. it's pretty simple.  The ignition lock is basically a switch, right?  It's just you can only flip the switch with the key in it.  When you turn the key on, you complete the electrical circuit that lets the bike work.  So you can just replace that switch with, you know, an actual switch.  Anyone could turn the bike on by flipping the switch, but most people wouldn't know that.

Yup - my mental malfunction.  I think this would be an awesome thing to add.  Might actually be cool to do a two stage setup where you have a hidden toggle AND a nice little Starter Button   Overkill but then again, I have an old mounted car phone that I was thinking of putting on the bike just to mess with cagers haha

[Kasumi]

I too have seen many new cars using this signal key system. You have to be pretty much stood next to the car and it will allow you to unlock the doors and start the engine. You get out of the car, walk a foot or so away and its locked. The problems they have thought of is the slightly security issue, if your not paying attention someone could jump in your car and drive off if you were stood next to it with your back turned. However soon as they hit the gas and sped away the key would be out of range and the engine cut out. The other problem is theft of something in the car while ur stood next to it. But if you have central locking you would probably have unlocked your car by the time you got to it, just as the key fob would do. So its really no difference. For the absolute best system i would say that this is the best way to go. However like egaeus said its bound to be costly. but who knows.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Well, they make RFID tags along with USB adapters for computers. So that as soon as you walk up to your desktop, it's unlocked, but if you walk away to use the restroom or whatever, it locks automatically. I thought about trying to retrofit one of those...

[MrDan]

Well, they make RFID tags along with USB adapters for computers. So that as soon as you walk up to your desktop, it's unlocked, but if you walk away to use the restroom or whatever, it locks automatically. I thought about trying to retrofit one of those...

Was just looking at those on ThinkGeek last night (and they happen to be about 5 minutes away from me).  That could be cool.

[mach1]

the onyl doenside to having a keyless electrical ignition is it malfunctioning and your miles away from home then your stuck with no ride home i guess you can add a manuel overide somewhere in case of malfuntion but thats alot of work. the toggle is the same way if the toggle craps out then your stuck but with that you can get a jumper(with inline fuse) kepp it in your tool bag under the seat and it the swith goes bad just jump the wires and start your bike. im sorry if this didnt make sense im very tired its been a looooooooooooooong day.

[Kasumi]

But you can have problems with your ignition. I can think of plenty, some of which have happened to me. Key breaks or gets bent, doesn't fit, malfunction in the wiring, water gets in and depending on weather either freezes the ignition shut or rusts the inside and it seizes up. You have problems with everything, i think there are far less problems with rfid and toggle switch than ignition.

[Egaeus]

RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought.  The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication?  Is your bike just going to quit running? 

Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.

Umm... just make the key necessary for starting.  When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again.  Problem solved.

Except that the need for a key is undesirable in NGFL's case.  That would eliminate the convenience.

Except if you were paying attention, even to the text that you quoted, you'd note that the key is an RFID key.

1.  Did you read what you wrote?  The key?  Maybe you need to pay attention.

2.  If the key is only necessary for starting, you bike is easily stolen.  You can start the bike with a screwdriver or any other piece of metal once the key is on.  You simply have to bypass the switch in the starter.

[Chuck]

It's called context, dude.  It's how things make sense based on the things that were said before it.

[Egaeus]

And how, exactly, do you use an RFID key.  You don't.  You simply have it.  That's the point.  Now, in the context of vehicles, using a key implies putting it in the ignition and turning.

[Chuck]

So when you have it, the machine starts for you.  If you don't have it, the machine doesn't start.  w00t.  My point was making having the RFID key (or tag, if key is too confusing) a condition for starting (instead of running) you avoid the dangerous situation where the engine quits because of radio interference masking the key/tag temporarily.  When you shut off the engine (using the kill switch on the handlebar) then the engine is off until the presence of the RFID key/tag enables the engine to be turned on again.  I can make a flow chart if it's still confusing.

[l3uddha]

they guy I got my front end from had completly bypassed the ignition key unit & replaced it with a small rubber button. Much like the switch that was mentioned above.

Flip the killswitch, push the buttin, & the bike would start. You're basically hotwiring the bike but putting in a switch/starter button. I suppose you could mount the button somewhere hidden.

I've considered doing something like this, but what's the point when you gotta carry the key around anyways to get into the undertail  

I've had no problems whatsoever with the stock ignition; except that I have to remount it now.

[Egaeus]

So when you have it, the machine starts for you.  If you don't have it, the machine doesn't start.  w00t.  My point was making having the RFID key (or tag, if key is too confusing) a condition for starting (instead of running) you avoid the dangerous situation where the engine quits because of radio interference masking the key/tag temporarily.  When you shut off the engine (using the kill switch on the handlebar) then the engine is off until the presence of the RFID key/tag enables the engine to be turned on again.  I can make a flow chart if it's still confusing.

I completely understand what you mean, but you're the one being a duck.  I read what you wrote, and you got all pissed when you were the one failing the whole context thing.  And again, you did not explain what you meant. 

Umm... just make the key necessary for starting.  When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again.

Putting aside your use of use the key for a minutes, your post suggests that the RFID tag enables the starter.  Problem is that the starting system can be bypassed.   If that's not what you meant, you should have been clearer.

[Chuck]

Sticks and stones, my friend.  I don't know what makes you think I'm pissed.  I'm not, even though you called me a duck.  Life's too short to worry about what some bloke on the internet thinks of me.  Whatever, transference I guess. But imagine if you will that the presence of an RFID key is necessary to move the kill switch to the on position (electrically of course, you can always move the switch with your hand), but it will stay there until it's manually switched off.  However, once it's switched off, the key is again needed to turn it on again.  With the kill switch off, you'll have a hard time starting the engine by any means, and if you can, you could have circumvented the lame stock ignition switch anyway.  For the sake of avoiding confusion, since the mechanical ignition key has been removed from the scenario, any mention of the word key, other than in this sentence, refers to an electronic RFID key.  I'm really sorry I wasn't clearer this is what I meant before.  I was just jabbing an idea out there figuring anyone actually interested in doing it would be able to fill in the blanks.  I'll buy you a beer some day to prove I'm not a duck, I promise.

[MrDan]

so - threw out my back today so beer and drugs may be talking .. but something just crystalized for me - couldn't this be done like on a jet ski?  where you have a "key" that holds the actual ignition connect (assuming i understand it correcly) open ...

that would prevent the problem of a bump knocking the "key" loose . and if it also had the frid function .. then using a paperclip (or whatever) to hold the post up (again - jet ski like) wouldn't do it

hope that makes sense .. i can barely see the monitor 

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

I like Chuck's idea of using the RFID to enable the starter.. not sure how to do it though.. I'll ponder and get back to you guys...

[Egaeus]

Sticks and stones, my friend.  I don't know what makes you think I'm pissed.  I'm not, even though you called me a duck.  Life's too short to worry about what some bloke on the internet thinks of me.  Whatever, transference I guess. But imagine if you will that the presence of an RFID key is necessary to move the kill switch to the on position (electrically of course, you can always move the switch with your hand), but it will stay there until it's manually switched off.  However, once it's switched off, the key is again needed to turn it on again.  With the kill switch off, you'll have a hard time starting the engine by any means, and if you can, you could have circumvented the lame stock ignition switch anyway.  For the sake of avoiding confusion, since the mechanical ignition key has been removed from the scenario, any mention of the word key, other than in this sentence, refers to an electronic RFID key.  I'm really sorry I wasn't clearer this is what I meant before.  I was just jabbing an idea out there figuring anyone actually interested in doing it would be able to fill in the blanks.  I'll buy you a beer some day to prove I'm not a duck, I promise.

Saying, "I meant the RFID key" is not being a duck.  Saying "Well, if you paid attention" is.  No hard feelings.

[damiencovington]

Here's something to think about.  I work in the alarm industry and one thing we can get our hands on is called a corby keypad.  Basically it's an electronic touchpad that looks kinda like a telephone number pad.  You can wire it up in place of the "keyswitch" in conjunction with an on/off switch and a start button/switch.  You flip the on/off switch to provide power to the keypad, punch in a programable code on the keypad then hit the start button.  Voila!, the bike starts.  When you get where you are going, all you do is turn off the on/off switch.  It's a simple and very effective way to keep the bike secure and get rid of the ignition key.  The same thing can be done with a magnetic lock for the seat lock and a helmet lock.  You would have to use a keyless gascap tho.  Electric current and gas fumes aren't the best of friends.  The same principle is used on a lot of garage doors with the keypad on the side of the door frame outside the door to open it without a key to the door.  Just my 2 cents worth.

Damien