**HELP**: Fork seals (The case of the mysterious washer)

[mjn12]

So this awesome weather could not have come at a beter time. I'm on spring break and was able to get my bike out friday night. After five minutes on a battery charger it fired right up. I got to put about 100 miles on it between friday nigth and sunday morning.

Now its sitting in my garage suspended from the rafters with its front wheel and a fork tube sitting on the ground next to it.  I decided I need to stop being an idiot and replace that ganky lookin front tire and the leaky fork seal.

The tire I picked up was a dunlop g501 110x80x117. Wish I could have found a 110x70x117 but the 80 was all that I could find in the area and i want to get this thing on the street again by tues or weds. Anyone know how hard it is to lever the old tire off the rim and squeeze the new one on?  Doing so would save me $20 bucks and I could just get it balanced. Or is it worth it to pay someone else to do it?

Also, from what I've read, when doing fork seals you should also replace the dust seals.  Is this just good practice or is it absolutely necessary? Could I be very careful and preserve the existing dust seals.  I've found a dealer about 30 min away with the oil seals but the dust seals would ahve to be overnight from bikebandit or something since noone seems to stock them.

Just so excited to be on the road with only two wheels under me.

[ducati_nolan]

I wouldn't atempt to change the tire yourself unless you have the propper tools and have done it before. I think it's pretty easy to dammage the wheel. $20 well spent in my opinion.

[ledfingers]

yeah, those wheels are suuuuper easy to mess up. it's worth the $20. and personally, i'd be patient and get the right size front tire.

[mjn12]

I called three different bike shops, all of them said that the 80 was what came up in the system and noone stocked 70's

[mjn12]

Alright, I'm in process with the fork seals.

I'm having trouble getting the oil seal down far enough that I can put the retainer ring and clip on. The clip goes right in without the retainer ring, but with the ring I can never get the entire thing snapped in, just one corner.  I'm using a piece of 1.5" pvc and hammering on it to force that seal into place.

I've tried just pushing the retainer clip in place and using the pvc pipe to try and force it down enough.  It feels like the seal is bottomed out.  Should this take a lot of pressure/compression?  Am I being too timid? I stepped back from it - dont want to break everything.  The replacement seal is suzuki genuine part 51153-08C20 - matches ron ayers part no. so I dont think the dealer gave me the wrong seal.

Let me know what you think.

[sledge]

They do take some effort to knock in, try a bit of grease on the outside and keep the seal square with the tube as you drift it in.

[mjn12]

I've hammered on these things pretty hard, enough to flatten the pvc pipe where I was hammering on it.  The new seals seem about 1-2mm thicker than the old - is this to be expected? I'm considering pulling it apart to make sure the seal is not damaged and there is nothing hiding under it that is keeping it from seating. Will the act of pulling the assembly apart again damage the seal?

[Hawkster]

I've hammered on these things pretty hard, enough to flatten the pvc pipe where I was hammering on it.  The new seals seem about 1-2mm thicker than the old - is this to be expected? I'm considering pulling it apart to make sure the seal is not damaged and there is nothing hiding under it that is keeping it from seating. Will the act of pulling the assembly apart again damage the seal?

You're asking all the right questions.  Are you using a non-oem seal?  It will sometimes damage the seal to pull it out.  I'd try setting the old seal atop the new one, then using the pipe to drive the new seal in.  That both prevents damage to the new seal while seating it, and ensures that it goes all the way in if the pipe's diameter is larger than the seal's. 

I use a heavy rubber mallet to do the driving, and set the bottom of the fork-slider on a few rags to keep from scratching it up.

Let us know how it goes.

Luck,

H~

[mjn12]

alright, after reading the clymer, it seems I have an extra part, or the clymer just doesn't mention it.  Should there be a metal ring (washer like) on top of the oil seal before the wavy retainer clip that fits in the groove or does the retainer clip go directly over the oil seal with no washer between them. I will get pics up ASAP.
http://vorlon.case.edu/~mjn12/images/oldseal1.jpg
http://vorlon.case.edu/~mjn12/images/oldseal2.jpg

[Hawkster]

Yes.  They have them.  The fiche at Ron Ayers shows the washer beneath the fork seal (and the retainer clip on top) in the '97 through 2000 models.

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0284/front_damper/front_damper.cfm?man=su&groupid=3160&parent=3070

Get the seal in?

Luck,

H~

[mjn12]

I'm looking at the fiche for the 2000 gs500e.
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0284/front_damper/front_damper.cfm?man=su&groupid=3190&parent=3070
The washer that is installed on my bike is between parts 6 and 7. Washer 4, the washer  under the oil seal is there and everything fits fine with that installed and this mystery washer out, but that leaves the rubber seal (5) pressing against that wire retainer clip (6).  The clymer has no mention of this washer between the rubber seal and the wire clip in its fiche, dissassembly or assembly instructions.   It seems like that washer should be there, but all the diagrams say it shouldn't.
This is what is looked like when I disassembled.
=== ===     <- Retainer clip
=======    <- Mystery Washer does not appear in any diagrams, not mentioned by clymer
----------------
|              |  <- Oil Seal
----------------
=======  <- Washer (4) in Ron Ayers (Clymer Manual diagrams  calls it Oil seal retainer

Also, the old seals dont look like the new suzuki geniune parts seals that I have.  could they be aftermarket seals that needed that extra washer on top? Can anyone explain this mystery washer?

[Gisser]

Also, the old seals dont look like the new suzuki geniune parts seals that I have.  could they be aftermarket seals that needed that extra washer on top? Can anyone explain this mystery washer?

Leak-Proof brand aftermarket seals come with a washer that fits between the seal & clip.  The Ron Ayers diagram clearly shows that no washer goes between the seal & clip with OEM seals.  The OEM seal is an interference fit in the slider so the wire clip can bear against the seal without problem.  Now, if the top of the seal is visibly dished from all the pounding get rid of it, otherwise it should be okay.   

[mjn12]

I suspected it was aftermarket seals with an extra part.  I just wanted to make sure that was the case, front suspension is kinda important and I didn't really feel like blowing an oil seal and coating my front rotor in 15w fork oil because I left out something important.  Once again the board comes to my rescue.

[baco99]

ah, so i do need that retaining clip.  i read somewhere on here that it wasn't necessary.  I mangled mine trying to get the right fork apart.

[mjn12]

Oh the fun never stops.  Putting it all back together the tire is cocked to the right, causing it to rub against the fender.  Tried loosening pinch bolts and bouncing, no luck.  I'm guessing the problem hid itself with the lower profile tire, but with this 80 the misalignment is more obvious. Gonna loosen everthing up and play with it some more. God I hop my fork tube isn't bent.

Update: forks wont straighten, unless the yokes that hold the forks are twisted with respect to each other a tube is bent.  My wheel is still cocked to the right when everything is tightened down, even after the loosen and bounce. The bike rides fine, isn't squirrely. Just have to ride with the bars to the left a little.  Maybe I'll have them look at this when I have the carbs looked over at a stealer. That is, of course, unless some one thinks I really should get a spanner wrench and loosen up the yokes in the triple to see if that makes a difference. Anyone?