Ok, whats the diagnosis now? Srinath? ANYone?

[Rashad]

Ok, ive almost got this bike down pat. Srinath, I got the old pilots out, and new (40) ones in, got the brass plugs out, and turned screws 3.5 turns out (im pretty sure). I have the V&H pipe for those of you who dont konw, and 125.7 mains.

Now, the bike runs weird between mid-throttle and idle. Pilot territory. Or pilot screw reather right?

It kinda bogs and sputters etc... til i give some more gas... Mostly when its warm i believe. So should i turn mixture screws in or out?

Also, before you answer, id like to point out taht blueknyt had an awesome idea and a good point. He suggested i remove the filter (stock) to see if its not breathing enough for the pipe. OH MY GOSH!!  This bike ran like a bat out of hell!!! No problems whatsoever... except a slightly hanging idle. (little lean hehe) but man! Cured the slide problem... around 8k without the filter in it doesnt sputter or die at all when throttle is rammed open.. it SCREAMS!! So i need a drop in K&N fast.

ANY comments would be appreciated!!

[JasonB]

Why buy a drop in when you can just get the pods and prob for less than the drop in!

[Rashad]

Well, from what i hear my driveability will go out the window. As well as my ability to keep the bike outside, and get stuck in rain.etc  etc

[JasonB]

Well I've never had that kind of problem changing from panel filters to aftermarket intakes in cars and unless you are pouring water into the filter or driving thru a puddle deep enough to cover the filter then water isnt a problem. Cover for it outside and it will be no problem in the weather.

I'll let you know this weekend when I put mine in.

[Jeremichi]

Did you use the bleed type pilots?

[Rashad]

Well I've never had that kind of problem changing from panel filters to aftermarket intakes in cars and unless you are pouring water into the filter or driving thru a puddle deep enough to cover the filter then water isnt a problem. Cover for it outside and it will be no problem in the weather.

I'll let you know this weekend when I put mine in.

Hmmm.. now you got me thinking and nodding my head. I have never noticed a prob with cars either (of course theyve all been Fuel injected). And i like the feel of no filter... feels right.  Let me know how it goes. Also, what size main should i use for that filter with a V&H full system?

[KevinC]

Rahad,

There is no such thing as a pilot screw. The idle mixture screw is only effective at idle, and up to 1/8th throttle.

The carb adjustments are not effective in an rpm range, rather they effect how the engine runs at different throttle openings. The needles and pilots are the mid-range adjustmnets. This page has an excellent carb primer:

http://www.motocross.com/motoprof/moto/mcycle/carb101/carb101.html

Have you balanced the carbs?

The bike will be absolutley fine in rain and storage with K&N or Uni pods. You would probably need to go to 135 mains, and raise the needles if you haven't yet.

Edit: Note that the GS does not have idle air screws as described on that page. They are idle fuel screws, and so in is leaner, out is richer.

[Rashad]

Rahad,

There is no such thing as a pilot screw. The idle mixture screw is only effective at idle, and up to 1/8th throttle.

The carb adjustments are not effective in an rpm range, rather they effect how the engine runs at different throttle openings. The needles and pilots are the mid-range adjustmnets. This page has an excellent carb primer:

http://www.motocross.com/motoprof/moto/mcycle/carb101/carb101.html

Have you balanced the carbs?

The bike will be absolutley fine in rain and storage with K&N or Uni pods. You would probably need to go to 135 mains, and raise the needles if you haven't yet.

Edit: Note that the GS does not have idle air screws as described on that page. They are idle fuel screws, and so in is leaner, out is richer.

Well, im lost then.. the bike runs weird at low throttle position.. perhaps it is 1/8th throttle. All i know is it ran fine at that position before i turned the idle screws out 3.5 turns, and added the new pilots.

I do have the washers on teh needles. and i think im gonna order that pod filter and put in some new mains. The stock airbox is gettin annoying anyhow. :nana:

[KevinC]

Well, I've never had a bike tuned with the idle mixture screws out 3 1/2 turns.

It isn't a formula! You have to set the idle mixture screw to make the engine run right. The machining and part fit is not that consistent that you can just set them at x turns, and have every bike run right. It changes with altitude, temperature, and even humidity, also.

Turn the idle mixture screws in slowly, one at a time, until you reach max idle revs. This takes some practice and iteration. Once you've found the peak, turn it out 1/4 turn from that. Re-set the idle speed. Repeat for the other side. You may have to do each side a couple of times back and forth, re-setting the idle speed each time. The bike has to be completely warm for this adjustment, at least a 15 minute ride before hand, but make sure you done't cook it sitting still running too long.

And the carbs have to be balanced! That is 90% of the carb problems I see on this board. I'll take some photos of my $5 balancer tonight.

[Rashad]

OK some new questions.. first, how the HELL do you adjust the stupid screws when the carbs are on the bike??

I cant find a screwdriver small enough... and if i did, it would be too hott... and if it wasnt, i couldnt actually see to tell what the hell i was doing, or how many turns etc.. etc..

Also, what EXACTLY does balancing do? What specific adjustment is made? Is it vaccum? sheesh. My mixture screws were all the way in from factory. 'Isnt dat vierd?'

[KevinC]

I use a small straight bit that is just the tip for a multi-tip screw driver or for an electric driver. I have an adapter that is intended to make those bits fit on a 1/4" drive rathcet or handle. I marked it inline with the screw driver blade, so I can count the turns. You could cut-off a straight scredriver, or get a stubby.

Balancing the carbs refers to making sure you have exactly the same vacuum, and therefore airflow and fuel, on both carbs. This ensures that both cylinders are firing with equal power (all else being equal), and the engine will run much smoother, acclerate better, idle better, return to idel better, and improve your sex life.

On the GS, you pretty much have to do it with the tank off. You can either use the tank suspended somewhere, with a long hose, or use an auxilary tank (see Kerry's posts on that subject). Again, the bike has to be warm. You need a guage to measure the relative vacuum (from the ports on the top of the carbs) between the carbs. I use a $5 plastic tube and aquarium valve manometer. You can buy carb stix, or vacuum guages.

The adjustment is a single screw in between the carbs that adjust the angle of the butterflies in relation to each other. And then reset the idel speed, check the idle mixture, re-test the balance, until you are happy. The bike will run much better.

[The Buddha]

Oy,
You just have me confused. If wihtout filter it runs fine but bogs with filter...too rich not lean.
With K&N pods and the stock needle you need 150 mains.
If the pilots are 40 non bleed style you would be fine but start at 3 turns on mix screw.
Get a short screwdriver bit and turn it with a 1/4 inch cresent or my hand.
The carbs will not be hot at all, of course you touch the engine after a ride when setting the mix screw you will brun your hand so be careful and my mix screw can actually be turned just by hand not needing a wrench. You could use a spinner if you have that but hand should be ok.
0-1/2 or 0-1/4 throttle after the mix screw is set to 3 turns if your idle is better but you have 0-1/4 throttle issues I'd check your floats. To 1/4 throttle you are going across 2 jet ranges and unlikely that its both. Float set too high will do it and is the 1 change that may fix that.
But I beleive you are a bit rich down low.
Driveability or rain riding or anything is sorta un affected by K&N pods. I did it for 20K miles. Of late especially on my eli 1000 K&N pods are begining to irritate the hell out of me cos they keep falling off. That on a GS is less likely cos they are not where your legs make contact with them.
So Its fine on the GS even for that. However they make intake noise and need to be generously oiled (I know every one oils it lightly) to stop actual dust. Keep it clean and its good as it gets dirty they let in more dust while maintaining flow. Your choice. Mine are S&B filters bought from bakerperformance.com or some like that.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Rashad]

K thanks bud. Ill try that mixture setting. The only way im running rich on the bottom is because of the screws, because i know you can run 40 pilots even with stock exhaust. Also, my filter is probably waay clogged, which may cause it to be rich.. whaddya think?

oh yeah, and its funny, the idle hangs still at low rpms.. so isnt that a lean condition? It does run better when cold too.

[KevinC]

So you cure a rich condition by going to bigger mains? 127.5 to 150 is a huge rich jump. If it runs fine without the clogged filter, I guess the clogged filter might be the problem.

Balance the carbs, please! You can't tell what the hell is going on with the cylinders fighting each other.

[The Buddha]

No, I thought I said K&N pods you need 150 mains. He has a stock filter that is clogged...I was replying to many sub posts as well but his jetting is rich down low. Clean the filter.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Rashad]

So you cure a rich condition by going to bigger mains? 127.5 to 150 is a huge rich jump. If it runs fine without the clogged filter, I guess the clogged filter might be the problem.

Balance the carbs, please! You can't tell what the hell is going on with the cylinders fighting each other.

OK id love to, but i dont know how. I have never done it.. I do appreciate your pic of yours, but i would have to learn more about that first.

[The Buddha]

I just Use 2 separate hoses 10+ feet long and todd them over a high object like the rafters on my garage or something and into a bottle of oil.
Then use a screw tightening system and a short flat bar and use that to control the flow.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Rashad]

Ok, i sent out my carbs, my tach, and your coils and a check for 8 bucks shipping to you today. Sorry it took so long.. Verrry busy guy i am. :mrgreen: