9mm, .40, .45

[spc]

Not at 2800fps.    The round had to have hit him, obviously not DCM, but it at least grazed him.  At 2800fps the round even barely brushing the contact could transfer enough energy to tear a limb off but it would have to contact the target.  The new brit .50 that's still in testing could possibly create enough of a shockwave but I think even that wouldn't be moving fast enough at 4000fps.  Personally my caliber of choice for sniper or automatic is 7.62  it's a damn effective round with 1000m accuracy in the appropriate weapon  ( I'm a sucker for a 240 though  the fuckin 249 just pisses me off with constant barrel changes )

[alerbaugh]

the 249 is great but the 240 is an auto snipper rifle.  the thing is very accurate and reliable.  i think the 7.62-54 is a better cartridge though.

[frankieG]

when i was in the army i was wearing my gun gloves and it was raining like hell.   the gloves got caught between the trigger and the guard...once i managed to get it out of there it had cooked off and warped the barrel 

[spc]

the inherent flaw of the 249 is that it has no ccoling system   The 240 does.........I've never come close to killin a 240, I've melted 3 barrels for a 249.........sooooo, in my opinion it is a POS.
7.62 is a very versatile round with consistant and predictable flight path.  The 5.56 is slower and affected more by environment.  Never had a 7.62 platform jam on me either.............My old issue M16A4 couldn't fuckin tuern out 60  rounds without jamming at least 5 times......  I dont have much time on my M4.

[alerbaugh]

i'll agree with the 249 are shaZam!.  ive seen a spent case stuck behind the bolt several times.  no idea how it gets there but it does.  i have had trouble with a 240.  in basic during the last day of FTX my platoon was opfor in the mount village.  we shot our 240 with so many blanks it quit.  it may have helped it we had a spare barrel for it but not in basic.  oh and one good thing about the 249...the barrel is bullet proof.  my gunner was on foot and got shot in the back but the barrel stopped the round.  got lucky bc it wouldnt have hit his plate.

[spc]

Whoever did your weavpons training should have warned you: 240 does not like blanks!!!  Gas builds up and clogs everything   Damn good luck for your gunner    Probably AK fire.......POS  the russians should have stayed with making vodka and never dabbled in assault rifles

[frankieG]

i disagree the 5.56 is faster than the 7.62, speed and rate of fire

[spc]

In fps the 5.56 is minimally faster ( maybe 200fps )  Show me a 5.56 platform that can run 650 rpm consistantly without overheating.  You can run 2000 rd drums through a 240 all day without changing the barrel.....  I forget but spec barrel change out for a 249 under constant load is about 2000 rds  WTF   it is officially a POS   More proof that 7.62 is a superior round???  How bout there's never been a true sniper platform in 5.56 and there have been multiple in 7.62.  5.56 is great for the masses ( Infantry ) because it is fairly reliable and fairly accurate to a point.  It is also considerably cheaper to manufacture   I'm not saying 5.56 is a bad round it just needs to stay in it's place with semi-short range  multi-purpose assault rifles and not be branched into full auto or sniping platforms.......  I swear to god if the army adopts a 5.56 sniper rifle I will join the f%$king marines

[alerbaugh]

i was designated marksman with my m4.  never had a problem with it unless we used that worthless brit ammo we have in the states but the US ammo downrange never failed me.  all they did was give me a 4x scope with an m16 upper reciever.

[spc]

  I'm big, so I generally get stuck on the tail with the real power   I never fired my M4 over there   The brit ammo is shaZam!, but the cheap US stuff isn't a lot better at least not the FMJ's.  God I can't wait to re-enlist.   As soon as these pins are out.......   I think I'm gonna go 19D.  Still a decent sized bonus  and one more good MOS for the SF App.  ( Just for record: 96B20, 11B4A currently)

[PuddleJumper]

Hey Spcterry.
Is it the AK that is so bad, or the 7.62x39 round itself.

I picked up a Saiga rifle in 7.62 a couple of year ago. It's made in Russia at one of the AK factories.

I think the action is actually an AK 103 series action. 16 inch barrel and a sport stock. 10 round mag.

It's surprisingly accurate for a short barrel, and so far not a single jamb.

Mind you, I'm not talking military work here, just something to have as a all around utility rifle.

Thanks.
PJ

[spc]

Little bit of both.  7.62x39 is a decent round.  Not anywhere near the 7.62x54 but it is allright.   As long as you keep it very clean and well lubed it will do almost anything you want.  They aren't bad rifles, and they can be a lot of fun.  Overall,  good for utility and good value   From a military standpoint, 5.56 is easier to manufacture and ironsight accurate about 100m farther than the 7.62x39.   You should be able to 3 inch shot group at 200m once you're used to the weapon and have your sights adjusted.  Past that the trajectory of the round is rather erratic, but up to that it is fairly accurate ( mind you the average 5.56 round out of an M4/M16 is ironsight accurate to 350m for a 3 inch shotgroup even with a mediocre marksman.)   I had a friend who bought an SKS ( also fires 7.62x39) and after stripping and cleaning the weapon thoroughly we started on the basics of shooting. 250rds later he was consistantly hitting ( 9 out of 10) a 5 inch target.
I would actually reccomend one of those rifles ( AK/SKS or derivative ) for a utility rifle ( home defense/ sport shooting/ pest control) based off of the low price of FMJ ammo and availability of it.  Also the russian assault rifles are fairly simple to strip down and maintain
Have fun and always make sure your chamber is clear, they have a tendancy to unexpectadly discharge if your trigger spring is getting old

[PuddleJumper]

It's a new rifle, so I don't think I'll have a weak spring problem just yet.
The firing mechanism is not standard AK either. It's been redesigned to work with a sport stock. ( no pistol grip ) The trigger is farther back from a standard AK.

Out of the box I could plaster soda cans at 50 paces all day.
I've yet to take it and fine tune the sights. I need to do that and see just how accurate this thing can be.

Thanks for the input, and I'll quit hijacking this thread.

BeSafe
PJ

[spc]

Tuning your sights is easy.....you can probably download an appropriate target online....they are about the size of a sheet of paper and have a kinda torso pictured on them inside of regular targeting lines.  Find out how to adjust your rifle ( google for a handbook ) and print a couple of targets out.  25 m is sufficient and drop 3 rd groups aiming at DCM of the torso on the pic.  Don't even look  for where the round hits until you have the shot group fired.once you fire the group go asses where the rounds land.  at that distance there should be no more than 1 inch between any of them.  If you dont have a good group focus on making sure you have a good stable point from which to fire.  Then focus on breathing and follow through.  breathing: the army recommends pulling the trigger at the natural pause between inhale and exhale.  Trigger pull and follow through:  If it's comfortable use only the very tip of your finger and don't release the trigger until the expelled brass hits the ground.

If ya have any other questions and concerns post away I'm always happy to help

EDIT:  check this link about 2/3 the way down for the target I was talking about ( first one I found googling it )
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m16a2/zero-and-m16a2-rifle.shtml

[vtlion]

two words guys....

POTATO CANNON


nobody's gonna mess with you when they are lookin' down the barrel of a 3 inch spud-gun.

[Jughead]

two words guys....

POTATO CANNON


nobody's gonna mess with you when they are lookin' down the barrel of a 3 inch spud-gun.

Or a 2 1/2" Tater Gun with Acetylene. It may Only be a 2 1/2" Bore but the Barrel is 8 Feet Long. I put a Hole thru a 3/4" Sheet of Plywood at over 50Ft.

[bettingpython]

two words guys....

POTATO CANNON


nobody's gonna mess with you when they are lookin' down the barrel of a 3 inch spud-gun.

3 words. Ready here they come...

Barret BMG .50

For when it absolutely positively has to be dead in the next 5 seconds.

[spc]

  but actually its :
" when it absolutely positively must be dead from a 1/2 mile away"

[bettingpython]

Isn't that a little short range for a round capable of punching through reinforced concrete at 2 miles

[spc]

Not a BMG .50   The round will travel that far but not accurately   1000m is the standard