political.....please post nicely

[Cal Price]

The price of a commodity is governed by "market forces" essentially this means supply and demand. Taxes and international politics can put a slant on it but supply and demand are the greatest forces. This applies to cabbages, peanuts, prostitution, bell-ropes and bibles as well as oil.

The supply side looks no worse than it did a couple of years back, in fact there has been a recent huge South American find (in Uraguay i think) but the demand side is running amok, industry in China and India seems to get the blame but all over the world people aspire to better lives they want to trade in their pedal cycles for mopeds then cars - who can blame them - the western countries have so why shouldn't they? hence demand rockets. ultimatly cutting the demand by being more careful and efficient may be the answer. Boifuels ? partly good partly not-so-good, big debate - jury out. Hydrogen, yes there is loads of it all over the earth we have it in abundance but extracting it is currently a very hard and expensive nut to crack. Eventually after a lot of research and effort hydrogen maybe the ultimate fuel.
In the meantime we have to live in reality and trim our demand or get used to paying more. In a few months time the company that makes London's iconic Black-cabs will be selling an electic version, it only does 50mph but for city centre cabs that's fine, sure the electricity is not produced by magic but overall it is a step in the right direction.

Who's fault? who's problem

GO FIGURE.

[trumpetguy]

I do not support drilling in ANWAR.  There are many environmental reasons (not Caribou) why.  The amount of oil estimated to be there doesn't outweigh the risk of messing up one of the last wilderness areas in the US.  No matter how much oil there is left (and no one really knows) we need to conserve rather than try to find ways to continue our thirsty habits.  How many SUVs are there on the road with one person in them?

I think that we should immediately institute a $2/gallon additional gas tax.  Use the proceeds to fund research into renewable energy (hydrogen, solar, wind, wave, etc) and mass transit.  The international energy companies are not interested in solar, wave or wind research (they cannot control the flow of those), and we are years away from affordable solutions in those areas at current levels of research.  Mass transit is needed immediately, especially as gas prices continue to rise.  In a very few years, we could be energy independent from the middle east -- the world would be a very different place as a result.

The other benefit of a sudden rise in price (tax) would be an immediate reduction in demand.  People will conserve when it is in their economic best interest.  We're already seeing some of that.  Then the Saudis (our dear friends) and Dubai and UAE would have to reduce the price.  I sincerely hope to see the day when they have to choke on their oil because no one wants it.

People will commute on mass transit if it's cheaper and faster than sitting in traffic, but the system has to be there or they cannot use it.

Save the gas for the fun stuff, like our Suzukis! 

I did find it interesting that the original post left out the part about Bush blowing it after 9/11.  I guess that doesn't make good fodder for the right-wing echo sites.

[The Buddha]

I have 2 words for you ...
Tele - F^&king - commute. All the time all the jobs. OK all IT jobs, sure there will be an adjustment period ... but its no different than calling dell customer service and talking to someone in Bangalore ... WTF ... he's telecommuting to your house.
So why cant I telecommute to NYC ... BTW NYC can stop paying NYC wages and say, yea this job, we'll pay Kansas wages, and you do the rest via your phone/internet line.
Cool.
Buddha.

[yamahonkawazuki]

many jobs dont have telecommuting as an option. and as ive said, the pipeline hasnt had a bad effect on wildlife. but then again im a "neo-con" and the only ppl who have raised objections to both anwar, and nuclear power have been liberals" but hey i respect everyones opinion. even though i mnay disagree with it. if someone can PROVE anwar would be bad. from a balanced POV then im willing to adjust my opinion

[bettingpython]

I seriously have not read this entire thread.

Consumerism is part of it but lack of meaningful research into alternative energy and our hostage status to foreign energy sources is largely the fault of tree hugging libs.

Nucler energy reduces the burdens on heating oil, coal, natural gas. Wanna know how to get rid of the waste...rocket...solar trajectory...big incinerator in the sky.

Fuckin food costs are screaming through the roof yet you can fix your mouth to propose a $2 a gallon gas tax...all whilst posting on a site which by it's very nature promotes consumption of fossil fuels as a hobby.

Government is so inneficient we will go the way of the dinosaurs before a study to even figure out where the problem lies could be organized.

Turn it over to private industry and sweep government regulations out of the way and watch shaZam! get fixed

Who the hell is gonna bail your elitist arses out when you can't make ends meet...the government.....thats funny shet.

[sarcasm]I don't wanna be a grown up I still wanna hang on to mommy's apron strings...mr government will you be my mommy.[/sarcasm]

G.odd DDDammnnnnn it TG you pissed me off and got my blood pressure up.

When in the hell is the next gold release of this software going to come out so I put you on my ignore list.

[bettingpython]

Oh and one last thing even if we begin drilling in ANWAR today and we begin increasing refining capacity today it will be 3 yeras before the out of control ballistic trajectory of costs will even begin to slow. Get outta my way I'm going to alaska with a pic axe once enough of that shaZam! starts bubbling up from the ground they'll have to do something with it might as well use it.

There used to be a time when a man making 40k a year could support a family of 4 now a couple making 80k a year can barely support a family of 3.

jserio you started this crap go get a motorcycle that way you talk about it instead o stirring people up.

[trumpetguy]

Sorry to raise your blood pressure, BP.  Seriously.  It ain't worth THAT.   

My point is that capitalism isn't going to fix this.  Solar power needs research to get the breakthrough to be economically feasible.  The big energy companies with the money to do the research will not do it because they don't see a $$$ return.  Yet the solar breakthrough would benefit mankind tremendously.  Those are the kinds of things that government can sponsor.  Universities can do the research -- but again, most of their research is $$$-driven.  Corporations pay them to do research and reap the profits.  They're only doing what people give them money to do.

Nuclear energy is OK, but we'll have waste with a half-life of thousands of years.  More research would allow us to use nuclear fusion -- almost free unlimited energy.  Capitalism isn't fixing that one, either.  And sending fission waste up in a rocket just doesn't seem too safe.  What happens when a Challenger-type disaster occurs on liftoff? 

Government doesn't have to be inefficient, any more than corporations have to be efficient.  Ever dealt with an insurance company?  Picture of efficiency, that...

Us tree-hugging libs haven't prevented meaningful research into alternative energy -- quite the opposite.  And our hostage status to foreign oil has been fed directly by Detroit and Madison Avenue.  A few 500cc motorcycles are a TINY drop in the bucket compared to what is burned every day by SUVs and full-size pickups with one person in them and not a scratch in the pickup bed.  None of that is worth crapping in our bed by drilling in a wilderness area. 

We still have cheap gas compared to other countries.  We would still have cheaper gas than most with an extra $2 tax on every gallon.  We'd just be doing some good with our money instead of sending it to the Arabs. 

[trumpetguy]

Reasonable minds may differ, of course! 

[yamahonkawazuki]

with the sprawl of this country a 2 dollar tax would severely cripple the economy even more so than it already is. mass transit, is a long term solution. which needs to be looked at. as well as alternative energy sources. we need a short term solution. and government. all sides of both parties have failed in teat respect. extra taxes WONT go to what it was meant for. and will be spent foolishly by whoever is in charge at whatever time.

[yamahonkawazuki]

[jserio]

well, someone has to "stir the pot". might as well be me. seriously. these issues i've brought up are ones that appear to be important and they make folks upset. if they weren't that important, it wouldn't upset you. they only way we're gonna come to agreements and solutions to these problems is to discuss them. if you don't like what i've got to say, well then don't read my posts.

[The Buddha]

Tele commuting is just the first step. There has to be more ... trip combining, trip sharing, multi tasking etc etc etc. Loooooong list. Seriously public transit is also an option ... but then again those people actually can telecommute really.
Cool.
Buddha.

[spc]

Nuclear energy is OK, but we'll have waste with a half-life of thousands of years.  More research would allow us to use nuclear fusion -- almost free unlimited energy.

Almost free???  you mean aside from the technology needed to produce temperatures of 100m kelvins and the obscene amount of hydrogen needed???  And that's just for Deuterium-Tritium fusion which has even more implied work as Tritium has to be made from lithium.  Deuterium-Deuterium reactions would be ideal as Deuterium can be refined from seawater but the temperatures necessary for that reaction are far beyond our current technology.

[trumpetguy]

Deuterium-Deuterium reactions would be ideal as Deuterium can be refined from seawater but the temperatures necessary for that reaction are far beyond our current technology.

Hence the need for research money!

[bettingpython]

well, someone has to "stir the pot". might as well be me. seriously. these issues i've brought up are ones that appear to be important and they make folks upset. if they weren't that important, it wouldn't upset you. they only way we're gonna come to agreements and solutions to these problems is to discuss them. if you don't like what i've got to say, well then don't read my posts.

This goes for you too if you don't have a sense of humor about my tirade damn it, especially considering the length of time since I have blown a gasket.

When in the hell is the next gold release of this software going to come out so I put you on my ignore list.

TG and I have an understanding and will never see eye to eye on about many things, and I do everything I can to avoid discussing politics....



You pansies sit around discussing how to fix the world I am going to try doing something about it...now where the hell is my pick axe and truck keys.

[trumpetguy]

I just turned over 23,000 miles on my bike tonight.  And it finally doesn't leak oil after I replaced the clutch cover gasket last month.  First time since I bought the bike (at 11K miles) that it doesn't leave droppings when I park it.

That's my personal contribution to limiting my use of oil.   

[bettingpython]

I just turned over 23,000 miles on my bike tonight.  And it finally doesn't leak oil after I replaced the clutch cover last month.  First time since I bought the bike (at 11K miles) that it doesn't leave droppings when I park it.

That's my personal contribution to limiting my use of oil.   

ZOMG! roflmao

[jserio]

oh, i've got a sense of humor. maybe i just haven't been round here long enough to understand the strange humor of BP.  no hard feelings here. no offense taken from anyting you've said. and even if i was offended, it's not really your problem. if something i say offends you well, you know, shaZam! happens. 

[yamahonkawazuki]

political discussions here are like RARE GOOD orgasms. only happening once every four years