Kat F/E swap brake question

[bucks1605]

Almost done with the swap. Now I just have to run my brake lines, do they bolt up to the triple trees? There are some holes on a bracket at the union of the two lines. Does anybody have pictures of their kat brake lines? Kat swap people?

[dgyver]

Are you using stock Kat brake lines... 1 into 2? There is a juction block (1 in and 2 out) with a tab that bolts to a triangled shaped plate which attaches with 2 bolts to the bottom of the lower clamp.

#9
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-gsx600fn-katana-1992-front-brake-hose/o/m6171sch256220

Do you need that plate?

[bucks1605]

No, I have the plate. I took a look at that diagram after I made this post and I was able to get it mocked up. I had some trouble routing from the master cylinder to the union (hose was too long) but I think it'll be ok. I still have to bleed and replace the pads, so we'll see how that goes.

[The Buddha]

Hey guys, a GS stem top thread boss is 10mm, a katana stem has a 12mm boss. When you put the GS stem in the kat triple Dgyver, did you drill and tap the thing
The OD is about the same, so they thing will fit the triple nice and tight, just the 10mm bolt will have a bit of play in the kat's top triple.
Cool.
Buddha.

[bucks1605]

I'm using the stem bolt from the gs

[The Buddha]

Yea stem determines the bolt. Maybe you can use a spacer sleeve.
These are supposed to be a tight fit all the way across.
Cool.
Buddha.

[dgyver]

It does not matter. There is no shearing force on the bolt, all of the shearing force is on the stem and its socket in the upper clamp. The only force on the bolt is longitudal. The bolt holds the upper clamp againt the steering nut to keep it from coming loose, that is its purpose.

The Kat uses a fine thread 12x1.25 bolt, not a common tap size. I looked at work for one but all we have are coarse threads.

[average]

What are you guys doing for pads with the Kat FE?

[bucks1605]

What are you guys doing for pads with the Kat FE?

A guy on katriders runs this site I believe, and I've been considering buying these A3 pads from him.

http://www.mopowersports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=6&zenid=ci4ehsmbdimr6s2391864tc5c5

[The Buddha]

It does not matter. There is no shearing force on the bolt, all of the shearing force is on the stem and its socket in the upper clamp. The only force on the bolt is longitudal. The bolt holds the upper clamp againt the steering nut to keep it from coming loose, that is its purpose.

The Kat uses a fine thread 12x1.25 bolt, not a common tap size. I looked at work for one but all we have are coarse threads.

Suzuki built these pretty damn tight and with possible reason. No shear until you bump something. Then the wheel gets pushed back the lower triples get bending and compression, and the top triple gets yanked forward. The stem boss is a tight fit into the triple to help that, but the bolt will sooner or later start to see load - all 3 types bending shear and tension as the top triple starts to move forward. 12 X 1.25 ... well I would run it to 12 X 1.5 and run the right bolt for it. In a way, I am actually going to do a SAE thread on 1. I am thinking 1/2 inch. Lets see. Its definetly over kill ... but I am pretty partial to leaving things as they were made if I can help it. Just less crap to machine. Yea I am only doing 1 with the GS stem though, I have pretty much stayed with katana stem in all other cases. I got a pressend in GS one, so I opted for that ... yea I know lazy.
Cool.
Buddha.

[dgyver]

You are not one to talk about clearances... pressing down the Kat stem and re-welding it... leaves almost no surface for the lower bearing to rest against. There is a lot of load on the bearings. I would ride on anything I mod, but would not ride a pressed down Kat stem.

[The Buddha]

The stem was only pushed in to that small extent where there is still the non tapered bearing area for the lower bearing.
That is why we are working on shortening from the top as well. Now D, you have been putting spacers under the bottom bearing that effectively does the exact same thing where the bearing is concerned and it leaves you without a steering stop. Basically we push it in about the same distance as the thickness of your spacer.
You have your ways, I have mine, and I wont go around saying I'd ride on mine and not yours, since I could very easily say the spacers look like a terrible idea and remember ~2 years ago, you gave me a set of spacers so I have actually tried to do it that way, the steering stops dont work, the neck lock doesn't work etc etc and you dont have any better bearing area than I do, which I must say is quite sufficient for everyone else reading this. I'd just say, where the bearings alone are concerned, your way isn't very much different than the one where I have pushed the stem in and welded.
BTW my aluminum welder is a biker as well and he's a machinist too. He's not going to throw stuff together and weld it and say go ... so this aluminum welding was done by someone who knows what he's doing and in what capacity it will be used.
Cool.
Buddha.

[dgyver]

The stem was only pushed in to that small extent where there is still the non tapered bearing area for the lower bearing.
That is why we are working on shortening from the top as well. Now D, you have been putting spacers under the bottom bearing that effectively does the exact same thing where the bearing is concerned and it leaves you without a steering stop. Basically we push it in about the same distance as the thickness of your spacer.
You have your ways, I have mine, and I wont go around saying I'd ride on mine and not yours, since I could very easily say the spacers look like a terrible idea and remember ~2 years ago, you gave me a set of spacers so I have actually tried to do it that way, the steering stops dont work, the neck lock doesn't work etc etc and you dont have any better bearing area than I do, which I must say is quite sufficient for everyone else reading this. I'd just say, where the bearings alone are concerned, your way isn't very much different than the one where I have pushed the stem in and welded.
BTW my aluminum welder is a biker as well and he's a machinist too. He's not going to throw stuff together and weld it and say go ... so this aluminum welding was done by someone who knows what he's doing and in what capacity it will be used.
Cool.
Buddha.

Get your facts straight.

I DO NOT, HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT use a spacer on the bottom, they go on top of the upper bearing.

The lower clamp and its bearing are NOT modified or changed from their factory locations. The steering stop is NOT affected.

Apparently you DO NOT know how to install them correctly. The bearings stay in their factory positions.

Our way are VERY different.

The only part that is affected is the steering lock, since the upper clamp is moved up and I stated that.

[The Buddha]

OK D fine this may be your new method, the spacers you have me 2 years ago were to be installed - 1 under the lower bearing, and 1 over the top bearing with the lip for the dust seal. OK so you have improved on that method. And dont say "I DO NOT, HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT use a spacer on the bottom, they go on top of the upper bearing" ... cos the lower spacer is 30mm ID and upper is 25mm so there is no way I made a mistake there. There is only 1 way it fits. But fine that was 2006 this is now, I can understand that.

However with your new method now you have ~3/4 inch extra height on top. Which I guess is not too bad. We have seated the bearing completely before deciding how far to push it into the lower triple. Its got right about the area it needs to seat in and then maybe a 1/8th inch, we only pushed it in ~1/4 inch, maybe lost an 1/8th in grinding, so its a 3/8th on the bottom. The method we did, lets everything work albeit with some funky spacers on top to eat up 1/4 to 3/8th.
Cool.
Buddha.

[dgyver]

Nothing has changed. They DO NOT go under the lower bearing.

This is how they are to be installed:

[The Buddha]

OK then why was one of them 30mm ID.
Cool.
Buddha.

[dgyver]

They are the same 25mm ID.

[The Buddha]

Not the ones you gave me ... anyway, Mine has plenty of seating area for the lower bearing. I can show pics if you want. And I also replaced the bearings, didn't knock them out and then re use them. Its nice and well seated and has the dust covers etc and is brand new. BTW ken did the ones I'm talking about. While he thought we was wasting time, he didn't think its a bad way to do it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[dgyver]

I made them all to the same ID. Either way you still installed them wrong.

[The Buddha]

I cant install it wrong, how will a 25mm ID spacer fit a 30mm stem.
Either way, its not relevant. You have shown pics of your work, and without seeing what we did you just said ours wasn't good. That is all I have issue with. Its engineering dude, there is a 100 ways to do it, all of which will fail under the right circumstances when you push it.
I started out by saying the 10mm bolt in a 12mm hole can be subjected to shear and bending by bumping into something hard enough. You completely bypassed that and said my lower bearing area isn't sufficient. I have it seated and have a bit of epmty space before the taper begins.
Can you show me how my bearing will fail due to lack of that 3/8th - 1/2 inch extra empty space. I cannot imagine under any circumstances how the bearing will be subjected to tension causing it to unseat even if you yanked the bike upward with a crane. All that lower bearing has to take is compression, compression and more compression. Turn it into tension and it will separate from the outer race as the stem starts to stretch ... and still I dont see it unseating any more than the stock will. Pull it hard enough and the stem will stretch, causing poisson's law to determine the shrinkage of the stem at which point it will start shrinking in dia, at which point it will unseat ... but it will unseat on the stock setup too. Remember, you need to create a scenario where our method will fail due to lack of empty space over the bearing and the stock one will not. Theoretical done have to stay within the confines of the real world. Though running into stuff is well within the real world.

Now, the spacers in your pic, yes there is a simple elegance to it, you're not getting into grinding or welding and you can use all the stock bearings etc etc. No argument there for ease of installation and that counts for a lot. But that doesn't make the other method any less effective.
Cool.
Buddha.