starts... then doesn't... lottery! ------ SOLVED------

[astroaru]

The bike was running like an angel till yesterday. The evil forces have taken over her since then 

I tried to start my bike, It won't. I heard a click sound followed by a 'whine'. The engine won't fire up. I got the battery out, checked the electrolyte(it was perfect) and check the voltage. It read 12.3 V( looked good), still charged it until it was 100% charged. Put the battery back in and try again, a click sound followed by a whine. Duh!

"Nikux" then suggested a push start today and it fired up. Then we switched it off and tried to start it without pushing, it started again without any problems. Tried it a few times without any problems. I took it for a ride and then switched it off, 20 miles away from my home, tried starting again. It did not fire up. The usual click followed by the whine. Damn! I was so far away from home. It was a pretty secluded beach that too.

With no help available, I run with the bike and try a push start, it worked luckily for me. Got it home and parked it. I am taking it anywhere until I completely diagnose the crap. 

I don't quite understand this weird starting problem. It is like lottery.  It is a 04 500F, Do you guys think it might be something to do with the starting assembly? I have no clues, looking for some expert advice. Thanks 

Edited on June 02 to add the following:
It is not the battery. I have tested it today and ruled it out now. It holds charge perfectly well and the voltage is always around 11.9-12.3V. There is also no corrosion in the leads. They are shining copper or whatever metal they are made off.


Edited in June 07 to add the following:
Doubly made sure it is not battery and the circuit. Tested with my friend's gs battery and the usual thing.  2guns Off I begin my starter motor and clutch inspection.

[ls 64086]

i am new to the motorcycling thing, but i'd still bet money it is your starter. sounds like the gear has a tooth or two missing. my bro is sorting out an issue on his kaw - it has a "one way bearing" or some such shat that went out causing starting issues. keep me posted, i have the same year/model and hope (sorry, for my sake) that it isn't a common problem.

cheers

[bluelespaul]

the starting issue may just be your battery. when they get old they start to not hold a charge. it happened to me once. i charged it and charged it and charged it. it read full power on the bike, on the charger and after trying to start it but once i put the multimeter on it while trying to start it i saw that it was dropping to below 4v.

when you try and start it do your lights go really dim? if so try and replace your battery before you go and tear everything apart.

[erbilabuc]

I bet its your battery

[astroaru]

sounds like the gear has a tooth or two missing.

I hope it is not complicated as you think it is... 

[astroaru]

the starting issue may just be your battery. when they get old they start to not hold a charge. it happened to me once. i charged it and charged it and charged it. it read full power on the bike, on the charger and after trying to start it but once i put the multimeter on it while trying to start it i saw that it was dropping to below 4v.

when you try and start it do your lights go really dim? if so try and replace your battery before you go and tear everything apart.

Bluespaul and erbilabuc: The head light stays solid while i attempt to start it a zillion times. The lights do not dim out, the horn is good. It holds up charge fairly well. In fact, the previous owner told me that he replaced the battery 1000 miles back. Do you still think it is the battery?

[yamahonkawazuki]

do you have/have access to a load tester?

[CndnMax]

whats up with all the F having starting issues? i ordered a new battery so ill find out if that fixes the problems i've been having. if not i just waisted 55 bucks  but i have a 3 years warranty so in the shop it goes lol

[astroaru]

do you have/have access to a load tester?

Firstly, I am not too sure what a Load tester is? If you are referring to a multimeter - I have access to one.

[astroaru]

whats up with all the F having starting issues? i ordered a new battery so ill find out if that fixes the problems i've been having.

All F's having starting issues! gosh, did not know that till now.  Please keep me posted if that fixes your problem. I am still preparing a complete diagnosis chart to decide the order in which I should start checking things.

[ben2go]

Starter clutch is not engauging.That's the whine.The click is the starter relay.Check your battery terminals,starter relay,and starter connections for corrosion.Use 1 table spoon of baking soda to 1 cup of warm water.Pour on the connection and lightly scrub with a tooth brush.Rinse with water.I use dielectric grease on my connections and nothing on the battery terminals.


See these threads for simuliar problems and cures.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38758.msg437562#msg437562

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0

[qwertydude]

Well if you really want to rule out the battery and don't have a load tester, simply jump start it. If it cranks right up without a problem then it just may be a battery. But the whirring makes me suspect starter clutch.

[astroaru]

Starter clutch is not engauging.That's the whine.The click is the starter relay.Check your battery terminals,starter relay,and starter connections for corrosion.Use 1 table spoon of baking soda to 1 cup of warm water.Pour on the connection and lightly scrub with a tooth brush.Rinse with water.I use dielectric grease on my connections and nothing on the battery terminals.


See these threads for simuliar problems and cures.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38758.msg437562#msg437562

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0

ben2go & qwertydude: Firstly, I would like to rule out the battery today. I am planning on swapping my friend's battery with mine and I will post it if works or not. I think it will make things clear before I can start to suspect the starter clutch. I will be very annoyed if it is the starter clutch though. The bike is just 4 years old with 13000 mi on it.  I will post back the battery results in a short while. 

[ben2go]

  Hope it is as simple as a battery that can't provide enough amperage to kick in the starter clutch.

[astroaru]

Hope it is as simple as a battery that can't provide enough amperage to kick in the starter clutch.

Unfortunately, It is not the battery.  I have tested it today and ruled it out now. It holds charge perfectly well and the voltage is always around 11.9-12.3V. There is also no corrosion in the leads. They are shining copper or whatever metal they are made off. So, Off I begin my next set of diagnosis. I really suspect a loose connection somewhere in the wiring.

The fact that it starts perfectly now and then is strongly suggesting me of a loose connection somewhere between the battery and the starter motor? I will test the circuit and post the results when done. Although, it is not going to be until Saturday.

[ben2go]

Gooder luck.





























(starter clutch or blow rotor magnet)       

[yamahonkawazuki]

Hope it is as simple as a battery that can't provide enough amperage to kick in the starter clutch.

Unfortunately, It is not the battery.  I have tested it today and ruled it out now. It holds charge perfectly well and the voltage is always around 11.9-12.3V. There is also no corrosion in the leads. They are shining copper or whatever metal they are made off. So, Off I begin my next set of diagnosis. I really suspect a loose connection somewhere in the wiring.

The fact that it starts perfectly now and then is strongly suggesting me of a loose connection somewhere between the battery and the starter motor? I will test the circuit and post the results when done. Although, it is not going to be until Saturday.

needs to be higher than 12.3
http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/JohnBates_ChargingCircuitTests3.pdf

[yamahonkawazuki]

do you have/have access to a load tester?

Firstly, I am not too sure what a Load tester is? If you are referring to a multimeter - I have access to one.

http://www.batteryweb.com/rc300.cfm this is a load tester. there are more primitive and cheaper versions out there. but the unit puts and test how well the battery can handle a load

[astroaru]

Doubly made sure it is not battery and the circuit. Tested with my friend's gs battery and the usual thing.  Off I begin my starter motor and clutch inspection.

[astroaru]

Okay so I ripped open the left hand side crankcase cover today and found some real bad news. I would like to have your inputs what is the next step. I am not in a great mood! I want to ride instead of endlessly working on my bike trying to get it run.

The stator looks fine. There are no visible damages there. However, the magnets look kinda strange to me. The orange colored coating seems to have been ripped off in some places. Is that a potential problem? However, the magnets are all intact and no damages. Not goat's?

Also more importantly, the starter driven gear seems to rotate in the counter-clockwise direction at least by 15-20 degrees before it stops rotating. The worst part is the regions marked in pink. They are loose and seem to be barely holding the rotor magnet assembly in place. However, The third bolt is taut.

At this stage it looks clear that I might have to get the rotor out. I don't have access to machine shops. I read the haynes and it says that a swing-arm bolt would serve the purpose. It is also a 14mmx1.5mm. I need to place a 36mm metal block as a spacer and etc, etc. I was wondering if there are better methods to do this. I don't want to spend too many bucks either 

What do you guys think? I want to get this running asap. Your inputs and suggestions matter a lot. Thanks